[apstats]

The title of this article really shows the slant in the reporting.

This decision makes a lot of sense to me and I actually think all universities should do more to encourage students to major in STEM. If taxes are paying for the school we should subsidize things that are good for America not individuals.

[stevenbedrick]

I would be very curious to understand a bit more about why you think that formal higher education in the humanities is not "good for America". Speaking as an academic researcher in a STEM field, I strongly believe the opposite to be true- we need _more_, not less, humanities education in this country. Even just restricting myself to a STEM-focused perspective, it is clear to me that the things that I teach students about computer science are of course important when it comes to understanding _how_ to build something, but they are not particularly useful when it comes to deciding _whether_ something needs to be built, _what_ to build, and then how to decide if it's working well- for this you need understanding and knowledge beyond what can be found in an engineering or biology textbook. This is particularly important in my area of specialization (medical informatics)- many of the most important things we think about in terms of system development and evaluation, and many of our most important methodological tools, are heavily informed by the humanities.

Zooming out beyond academia, Bret Devereaux, a historian whose writing appears with some regularity on HN, wrote a superb essay a few years ago on the practical case for the humanities and puts it better than I ever could, so I will link to his post: https://acoup.blog/2020/07/03/collections-the-practical-case...

[robocat]

Aren't you presuming that humanities have humanity and STEM/business graduates are somehow less moral? I suspect there is an insidious presumption behind your comment. Some discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37097655

One effective but evil engineer in power could do a lot of damage. Hitler wanted to be an artist but couldn't get into university. Although if I'm going to use selection bias: some of our tech overlords seem morally repugnant.

I wonder if we could show that:

(1) humanities graduates have better morals, and

(2) that those graduates got those morals by going to university (versus had them as children - selection bias of those choosing to do humanities).

> when it comes to deciding _whether_ something needs to be built, _what_ to build

Can of worms: how to successfully teach people to be ethical. Certainly our churches seem to me to often fail: fail at the level of the individual (I have met enough arsehole Christians), and fail at the level of a society (a group of Christians deciding to do extremely unchristian things).

[kstrauser]

> If taxes are paying for the school we should subsidize things that are good for America not individuals.

I enjoy living in a society with music, literature, dance, plays, sculpture, painting, architecture, and not-strictly-necessary decoration. Those are all good for Americans, individually and collectively.

[TacticalCoder]

> I enjoy living in a society with music, literature, dance, plays, sculpture, painting, architecture, and not-strict-necessary decoration.

There may be an argument for university degrees in these domains but that isn't one. All these things existed before students had to be 100 K or 150 K in debt to learn them.

There's a big difference between actual artists and the people studying them.

[trimbo]

Studying the humanities puts people in debt to the tune of $100K, sometimes $250K, to get a job that pays $50K.

The problem isn't that humanities jobs are all worthless, it's that there are a very, very limited number that have enough of a value add to society to make a good living. For every successful author/artist there are 100 or 1000 struggling ones. The numbers just don't work.

Universities--especially private big-name art schools--have preyed on this lack of perspective on this asymmetry. The other commenter is right about administrative costs, but this particular scam of selling an unrealistic dream has got to stop somewhere.

[snakeyjake]

>If taxes are paying for the school we should subsidize things that are good for America not individuals.

Media and advertising comprise a $500 billion annual market in the United States. The Humanities teaches people to write and writing is the start of every media product.

When I got my CS degree my university required four semesters of creative and business writing. Students complained and now they do not. Many universities have followed suit.

Recent graduates now tend to write as though they are suffering from a head injury. Even worse they have started to rely on AI tools so now they tend to communicate like robots with head injuries.

I hated with the fury of a thousand suns all of the writing I had to do in school. Now I hate how bad new hires are at communicating even more-- to the point that I believe that a mediocre engineer who can write effectively and present data effectively is better for the company than a "rockstar" whose emails read like, well, someone with a head injury wrote them.

[matthewdgreen]

This seems like one of those Chesterton’s fence things where you say “how could it be bad for America to force a bunch of people with no aptitude for STEM to major in STEM or else have a limited education” and then you find out.

[ITB]

If someone doesn’t have aptitude for higher education, they shouldn’t get it. Higher education is not some universal right. But those who do get free public higher education should do it in a field that has clear downstream economic impact.

[jedberg]

How many days a week do you watch TV or read a book? My guess is probably 7 days a week.

What do you think the people who made those things studied in college? Unless you're watching Futurama exclusively, it wasn't STEM.

Non-STEM majors have value too. A society of nothing but engineers and scientists isn't one I'd want to live in.

[Whoppertime]

The number of students graduating Per Year in psychology is greater than the total number of psychology jobs in the country. It fits in the category of "things that cannot last forever will not last forever"

[throw0101b]

> If taxes are paying for the school we should subsidize things that are good for America not individuals.

If all you have access to is a subsidized state school, do you get to learn a different language, examine history, ponder philosophy, experience and make art? Or is that only reserved for folks that can afford to go to fancy schools?

Are citizens who are aware of history, other languages and cultures, know how to create and understand art, not good for America?

[rblatz]

Not if they’re stuck working at Starbucks.

[canarypilot]

Best drop that M from STEM; from the article, and similar recent reporting, the graduate Maths program is one of the indulgences Virginians can do without.

[tptacek]

The article is at pains to connect the humanities courses being cut to the careers they feed into.

[Ajay-p]

The universities have become bloated and mismanaged with great resistance to change. Tenured professors and administrators are very opposed to anything that reduces their jobs or makes them redundant. A lot of universities are carrying dead weight, professors who have no classes to teach because students are not required to take them, or worse, classes whom if not for a student requirement would not exist. Administrators whose jobs are duplicative if not unnecessary. Streamlining higher education is a very noble goal and one that is grossly overdue.

[tptacek]

I'm dubious of any analysis that treats "tenured professors" and "administrators" as a unified bloc.

[maximinus_thrax]

> I actually think all universities should do more to encourage students to major in STEM.

Weird take. Universities aren't trade schools.

[frozenport]

They are already doing that.