Summary: Google tried to "nano"-trench Louisville, KY using 2" deep trenches (by comparison micro-trenching is typically 6" deep) then use epoxy to cover the trench. The epoxy didn't stand up to tires. Google tried to replace the epoxy with asphalt but that damaged the fiber. Google determined at that point that nano-trenching wouldn't work and didn't want to spend additional money to remedy the situation, so they abandoned Louisville.
My story in NC:
Aug 2015: Google Fiber sent me a T-shirt promising Fiber would be available soon!
Jan 2017: AT&T Fiber available to my address. $70/month for 1 Gbps.
Aug 2023: Google Fiber finally available at my address. $70/mo for 1 Gbps, $100/mo for 2 Gbps.
So yeah, Google got AT&T to get off their butts, but it took Google 8 years to get to my address. Meanwhile, AT&T is still $70/mo, includes HBO (er, Max), and is reliable, so I don't really have any reason to switch.
That said, I'm considering having GF installed anyway as long as they're in the neighborhood and running dual-WAN for a while. I can always cancel it and then my home is setup for both ISPs.
I'm not in the US, but in my country the fibre-provider and the ISP are unrelated companies. There are multiple fibre companies (typically an area is served by one or another of them although my area has two) and of course a couple dozen ISPs that do the ISP part.
This model works -really- well. ISPs compete on price, and service. Fibre folks do the physical stuff. Fibre companies are incentivised to get rolled out in an area first. ISPs can scale up without having to raise huge capital. And the roadside only gets dug up once (mostly the fibre is buried, although some makes use of existing pole infrastructure. )
It's one of those (rare?) cases where good regulation, and a free market collide, and the result us that everyone has fibre.
I say this not to gloat, but rather to show that it can be beneficial to separate access from service for best customer service.
[1] my first ISP went under. I switched to a new ISP within an hour after the cause of the outage was understood.
[2] a couple of outages have been ascribed to the fibre provider, the ISP escalates those for me, and have been rectified within the hour.
Who knew competition could lead to such good customer service...
I thought you must surely have meant `2'` vs `6'` (i.e. feet) and simply used the wrong symbol.
I don't really understand how a 2" deep nano trench is meant to last any serious amount of time (compared to a regular conduit fully buried under the road), given how asphalt roads (particularly in a city where there is a fixed-height curb, and resurfacing works will regularly be ripping up a layer of the asphalt to be replaced.
If you run home servers and like having complete control, I recommend staying away from AT&T Fiber. They play lots of network games (port remapping/takeover, routing issues, no limits but limits!).
Google Fiber, on the other hand, has been clean and clear.
I also got the t-shirt from Google, when they announced they were coming to Austin. I don't remember which year that was.
Google did come to a couple of neighborhoods, but that's it.
And while that spurred the AT&T fiber sales critters to come out of the woodwork, that didn't inspire much in the way of actual fiber investment from AT&T.
The sales critters came to our neighborhood several times, but ultimately stopped. I think I may have had some influence there, because I kept asking them if they could actually deliver fiber to our house, and they kept failing to be able to answer the question. I kept showing them the AT&T website on my iPad and to show me where they could actually provide service, and they just walked away.
Still no AT&T fiber here.
But Spectrum was happy to walk around the neighborhood recently, offering their same sub-1Gbps cable modem service that they've had for years and years.
Sadly, when Time Warner Cable was here, they could do symmetric 1Gbps connections, at least if you signed up for business class service. Not so much with Spectrum. They can give you 1Gbps down, but nowhere near that for upstream -- not even with business class.
This sounds like a plan cooked up by a shonky tradesman 'its ok, well use epoxy to patch her up. she'll be right, m8' (sound of house falling down.mp3)
> So yeah, Google got AT&T to get off their butts, but it took Google 8 years to get to my address. Meanwhile, AT&T is still $70/mo, includes HBO (er, Max), and is reliable, so I don't really have any reason to switch.
I'm guessing Google's presence is also what keeps your AT&T bill at $70/mo.
Exact same experience in Austin, the quality of internet providers is so much better. There are multiple options for gigabit and none of them have data caps. When living in the Bay we only had one option and it had a data cap that we regularly hit; living in a house with 5 tech people will do that. In Austin there are no data caps, much better service, and a more consistent price. It's amazing what a little competition did.
8 years worth of comms tech progress should of course make 1 Gbps much cheaper if the competition worked (since the same fiber works for higher speeds).
I had Google Fiber installed in my crapbox Barton Hills duplex (Austin, Texas)... I want to say 2015? It was cool, a then-neat-gimmick that I had to wait years for installation.
I now have Chattanooga's public utility fiber, provided by the local electricity provider (EPBfiber, part of the electric fiber board) to EVERY SINGLE ADDRESS SERVICED BY THE POWER COMPANY.
The latter scenario is SO MUCH BETTER that the state of Tennessee effectively has banned [still cat-and-mouse] other cities from implementing Chattanooga's beloved solution to broadband infrastructure AS A RIGHT. I do not even know why Comcast/AT&T/etc. even send out advertisements when nobody in their right mind would choose anything other than the city-provided publicly-subsidized internet.
I was on the board of a similar municipal effort in the mid-west. Comcast sent in 3rd party consultants to scare residents and mis-represent every aspect of the effort. Thankfully the public vote for the infrastructure passed anyway.
That hush money didn't cover how much the tax payers wound up paying for the whole mess. Keep in mind, too, that was also after the city spent a lot of money prosecuting a One Touch Make Ready law through multiple layers of federal courts against AT&T and Spectrum and its own electrical company. (That was supposed to have been the real experiment, if a city could take back a lot of the red tape on its electrical poles. The city won and instead of using just about "blank check" access to city electrical poles, Google Fiber decided to do something much dumber.)
Summary: Google isn't really a business, it's a confederation of dilettante, temporary experiments only interested in the paths of least resistance.
I'm curious if anyone knows why there is a GF dead zone in Austin downtown except for the Google offices and a few other buildings. It's bounded by N Lamar to the west, W 30th to the north, I-35 to the east, and the Colorado to the south. Taxes? Permit $? Laziness?
2 Gbps GF ATX customer here. It takes under a week to activate. They have 5 Gbps now but I don't see the point. $70 1 G, $100 2 G, and $125 5 G.
If GF goes under, there's always Spectrum who sends me 5 junkmail ads a week for their overpriced offering.
This is always quite an interesting dynamic in local government. It's the nature of the US that there's always going to be some mid sized city run by idiots and big corporations can just shop around to see who they can take advantage of. If you strip away the brand name this is just a city agreeing to install an incredibly sub-standard local utility. But it's cheaper! Yes, because it's bad! All the other people digging deep trenches aren't idiots, they're building out the infrastructure to a spec where it will actually be maintainable.
Anyone who knows outside plant fiber could have told you this was a recipe for disaster. The only way to "micro trench" fiber that will last is using a big-ass diamond bladed wet saw, like 10 to 12 inches down and then fill the slot with proper concrete/pavement grouting. NOT two inches down and filled with black rubber stuff.
Vancouver BC has an extensive microtrenched fiber network in the busy downtown core, crossing many roads, and it's relatively trouble free.
It's exactly how a know-nothing MBA would create a broadband network.
I've seen proper trenching with a 30" diamond saw the last bit from a telephone pole to a commercial building. The fiber ran as far as it could using public right-of-way to save installation labor costs.
Why would you not put the cable under the ground? I understand that this is more cost effective.. in the SHORT RUN. Currently (I am Dutch) Odido (former T-Mobile) is planning to ship fiber in my town (23.000 people) where it will take 2 to 3 month before it is at my door. Every cable goes under the ground. I even know that in the Netherlands the ones that dig cables have an app that tells them what they can find under the ground at what level and what type. They are also required to tell where they are laying the cable, how deep and what type of cable it is. We might have a lot of weird rules but this for sure it better than this...
Because it got other providers to get off their butts. Besides, it's relatively easy to switch providers anyway (where available).
I don't understand why people are scared of using services that have relatively low switching barriers, because they may be shut down one day.
I've used so many services over the years - big tech and from start ups that I've since moved form because they closed down or remained stagnant over better alternatives, and I never had to give it a second thought.
Google fiber is just another thing in the Google graveyard. I’ve switched away from almost every Google product with maps and gmail being the last holdouts. I mostly use Apple Maps but there’s nothing as convenient as gmail and workspaces. If Apple offered email again I would switch to it for sure.
And so the man who does not make works is brain lost his place?
“It is such a shame to think that we wouldn’t be having any of this conversation if they would have dug their little holes two inches
deeper,” Coan said.
js2|2 years ago
My story in NC:
Aug 2015: Google Fiber sent me a T-shirt promising Fiber would be available soon!
Jan 2017: AT&T Fiber available to my address. $70/month for 1 Gbps.
Aug 2023: Google Fiber finally available at my address. $70/mo for 1 Gbps, $100/mo for 2 Gbps.
So yeah, Google got AT&T to get off their butts, but it took Google 8 years to get to my address. Meanwhile, AT&T is still $70/mo, includes HBO (er, Max), and is reliable, so I don't really have any reason to switch.
That said, I'm considering having GF installed anyway as long as they're in the neighborhood and running dual-WAN for a while. I can always cancel it and then my home is setup for both ISPs.
bruce511|2 years ago
This model works -really- well. ISPs compete on price, and service. Fibre folks do the physical stuff. Fibre companies are incentivised to get rolled out in an area first. ISPs can scale up without having to raise huge capital. And the roadside only gets dug up once (mostly the fibre is buried, although some makes use of existing pole infrastructure. )
It's one of those (rare?) cases where good regulation, and a free market collide, and the result us that everyone has fibre.
I say this not to gloat, but rather to show that it can be beneficial to separate access from service for best customer service.
[1] my first ISP went under. I switched to a new ISP within an hour after the cause of the outage was understood.
[2] a couple of outages have been ascribed to the fibre provider, the ISP escalates those for me, and have been rectified within the hour.
Who knew competition could lead to such good customer service...
stephenr|2 years ago
I don't really understand how a 2" deep nano trench is meant to last any serious amount of time (compared to a regular conduit fully buried under the road), given how asphalt roads (particularly in a city where there is a fixed-height curb, and resurfacing works will regularly be ripping up a layer of the asphalt to be replaced.
jeremyw|2 years ago
Google Fiber, on the other hand, has been clean and clear.
bradknowles|2 years ago
And while that spurred the AT&T fiber sales critters to come out of the woodwork, that didn't inspire much in the way of actual fiber investment from AT&T.
The sales critters came to our neighborhood several times, but ultimately stopped. I think I may have had some influence there, because I kept asking them if they could actually deliver fiber to our house, and they kept failing to be able to answer the question. I kept showing them the AT&T website on my iPad and to show me where they could actually provide service, and they just walked away.
Still no AT&T fiber here.
But Spectrum was happy to walk around the neighborhood recently, offering their same sub-1Gbps cable modem service that they've had for years and years.
Sadly, when Time Warner Cable was here, they could do symmetric 1Gbps connections, at least if you signed up for business class service. Not so much with Spectrum. They can give you 1Gbps down, but nowhere near that for upstream -- not even with business class.
Sigh....
johnbatch|2 years ago
Aug 2015: Free T-shirt
May 2017: ATT dug up my yard (Everyone was hopping it was google)
Nov 2017: ATT fiber Installed (At least it’s not spectrum cable anymore)
Dec 2021: Google Fiber dug up my yard.
May 2022: Google Fiber installed.
It’s a shame they re-trenched everything 4 years after ATT did.
Uptrenda|2 years ago
prirun|2 years ago
I'm guessing Google's presence is also what keeps your AT&T bill at $70/mo.
Dig1t|2 years ago
fulafel|2 years ago
MichaelRo|2 years ago
I'm paying $7 / month for 0.5 Gbps. I'd say it's worth the tradeoff.
cowmix|2 years ago
ProllyInfamous|2 years ago
I now have Chattanooga's public utility fiber, provided by the local electricity provider (EPBfiber, part of the electric fiber board) to EVERY SINGLE ADDRESS SERVICED BY THE POWER COMPANY.
The latter scenario is SO MUCH BETTER that the state of Tennessee effectively has banned [still cat-and-mouse] other cities from implementing Chattanooga's beloved solution to broadband infrastructure AS A RIGHT. I do not even know why Comcast/AT&T/etc. even send out advertisements when nobody in their right mind would choose anything other than the city-provided publicly-subsidized internet.
<3 from Not Your Electrician
anigbrowl|2 years ago
It's bleakly hilarious that politicians of a certain stripe fall over themselves to pass laws against policies that deliver value to the public.
wddkcs|2 years ago
kyrra|2 years ago
Google paid the city $3.8M to the city, for the city to clean up the mess themselves.
WorldMaker|2 years ago
hipadev23|2 years ago
1letterunixname|2 years ago
1letterunixname|2 years ago
I'm curious if anyone knows why there is a GF dead zone in Austin downtown except for the Google offices and a few other buildings. It's bounded by N Lamar to the west, W 30th to the north, I-35 to the east, and the Colorado to the south. Taxes? Permit $? Laziness?
2 Gbps GF ATX customer here. It takes under a week to activate. They have 5 Gbps now but I don't see the point. $70 1 G, $100 2 G, and $125 5 G.
If GF goes under, there's always Spectrum who sends me 5 junkmail ads a week for their overpriced offering.
SilverBirch|2 years ago
Uptrenda|2 years ago
walrus01|2 years ago
Vancouver BC has an extensive microtrenched fiber network in the busy downtown core, crossing many roads, and it's relatively trouble free.
1letterunixname|2 years ago
I've seen proper trenching with a 30" diamond saw the last bit from a telephone pole to a commercial building. The fiber ran as far as it could using public right-of-way to save installation labor costs.
unknown|2 years ago
[deleted]
ivolimmen|2 years ago
daanluttik|2 years ago
stephenr|2 years ago
amf12|2 years ago
I don't understand why people are scared of using services that have relatively low switching barriers, because they may be shut down one day.
I've used so many services over the years - big tech and from start ups that I've since moved form because they closed down or remained stagnant over better alternatives, and I never had to give it a second thought.
Dylan16807|2 years ago
So if one service has significant advantages, I'll switch. Even if it might not last a long time.
asylteltine|2 years ago
grogenaut|2 years ago
aurelien|2 years ago
“It is such a shame to think that we wouldn’t be having any of this conversation if they would have dug their little holes two inches deeper,” Coan said.
Alphabet the Clown compagny!
bitcharmer|2 years ago
ChrisArchitect|2 years ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19392404
classified|2 years ago