In EU, Teslas were cool toys at the beginning but now it got this image of "that stupid Musk's product" and people are slowly but surely drifting away from it, especially considering the competition catching up.
Surely, this other union thing is not going to improve the brand image.
Not only that. Tesla's are typical American products. If you look at the electrical use of cars Tesla's are the most power hungry electric cars there are. Up until the Tesla 3 all other electrical cars where more efficient. See: https://ev-database.org/compare/efficiency-electric-vehicle-...
There are a couple of other issues people don't want to talk about (or don't want to admit) as well. Sample size of four here but the problems are interesting.
Firstly it turns out charging your car is a pain in the ass in some places, particularly here in London. The chargers are regularly damaged and poorly maintained or completely rammed. There is also nowhere to park to charge at home. On top of that the electricity pricing options are so volatile that it is actually hard work to find a cost effective charging option on a regular basis which means you have to plan everything. Ad-hoc trips being a planning exercise really doesn't work well.
Secondarily, the cost savings didn't add up when you factor in depreciation and capital cost anyway. Especially when there is nothing competitive to petrol vehicles on the second hand market where the majority of sales volume is.
Add to that the toxic Musk association and the constant pushing and marketing and I think people are getting fatigued and unsympathetic at this point. The market is damaging itself with dishonesty, inflated claims and toxic association.
The four people sold their (3x Tesla, 1x BMW) and two went back to petrol cars and the other two said they'd never own another car again.
Just looking at the cockpit at almost all modern cars, the Tesla models especially, the are toys indeed. It's all buttons on a huge display, none of the comfort that a muscle memory offers when you want to adjust the AC a bit or flip the recycle air switch or use the built-in lighter.
Very true. General perception of Tesla seems to have gone down the drain in the past few years, as Elon Musk has become a more and more public and divisive figure. This stupid fight is not helping.
I see it quite politicalized. Tesla was "cool" in Europe at a time when the center-left consumers were too naiv as to not realize that Musk is center-right. After the media helped to transport this, Teslas were suddenly less cool with center-leftish people. Its actually hilarious.
Almost no-one I know cares about what Musk says on twitter, they just want an good electric car, and they buy them. The Model Y is the top selling car in europe.
Please - at least look up figures before posting stuff like this.
Edit: it’s amazing I’m getting downvoted on HN which is supposedly a scientific community. The person I was replying to made claims which were wrong which I point out with numbers. Yet people are so obsessed with hating musk they downvote me.
Predictable escalation to a stupid fight. The only solution, other than accepting unionisation (EDIT: collective bargaining, i.e. Swedish commercial culture), is franchising local operations.
A week ago that was Sweden. Now it's the Nordics. Let this marinate through Christmas, and it may find home in European legislatures.
Swedish labor laws are actually fairly lax (depends on what you compare with ofc), where the state has handed over essentially legislative power to the "parties", the large union organisations and organisations of employers / companies. A little corporatistic if you want.
These parties then negotiate and the resulting CBA's fills in blanks in the legislation (such as minimum salary levels etc) and other benefits. With a CBA in place, strikes are forbidden if the deal is kept. It's renegotiated every couple of years. Many companies / local unions also have local amendments (which are negotiated on a more local level).
This model is generally appreciated by both the unions and large enterprisey companies. It gives stability to the companies.
However... Tesla is of course not part of these employer organisations. A typical software startup or even fairly large (< ≈1000) white-collar employers are not part of these organisations either. About 10% of workers are outside of CBA (like me and probably the majority of developers in Stockholm). Those companies don't value having to commit to a CBA, might have different compensation schemes etc. The workers at these companies are typically happy and well compensated. It's not uncommon to see stuff like "Our pensions are according to the CBA" even if they don't sign the CBA.
Employees of these non-CBAcompanies can still be in the union though, as you get benefits even without CBA, and part of the unemployment insurance is typically through the union.
Further, according to both Swedish labour law and EU negative freedom of association principles, entering into a CBA is not required.
But, the whole Swedish model depends on most employers signing the CBA, especially those in blue collar industries where the risk of exploitation is higher. No union is going to strike about e.g McKinsey not having a CBA, but Tesla mechanics I think are too close to home of the blue collar unions.
I do wonder how this will end... Tesla signing an CBA seems out of the question, and I think the union might have overplayed their hand here. Many Tesla employees are not striking (nor want a CBA), many Tesla customers who might have had a good impression of the unions were pissed of when the union put a strike on e.g changing to winter tires of Tesla cars (even at non-tesla shops).
Except most American automakers besides Tesla seem to have very strong unions. Which are also possibly more effective at maximizing their members wages than the unions in Europe.
[+] [-] Baguette5242|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ivolimmen|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baz00|2 years ago|reply
Firstly it turns out charging your car is a pain in the ass in some places, particularly here in London. The chargers are regularly damaged and poorly maintained or completely rammed. There is also nowhere to park to charge at home. On top of that the electricity pricing options are so volatile that it is actually hard work to find a cost effective charging option on a regular basis which means you have to plan everything. Ad-hoc trips being a planning exercise really doesn't work well.
Secondarily, the cost savings didn't add up when you factor in depreciation and capital cost anyway. Especially when there is nothing competitive to petrol vehicles on the second hand market where the majority of sales volume is.
Add to that the toxic Musk association and the constant pushing and marketing and I think people are getting fatigued and unsympathetic at this point. The market is damaging itself with dishonesty, inflated claims and toxic association.
The four people sold their (3x Tesla, 1x BMW) and two went back to petrol cars and the other two said they'd never own another car again.
[+] [-] rightbyte|2 years ago|reply
Hummers were more or less considered political symbols in support for the US war on Iraq, and like, pollution and gasoline waste.
But that's a niche car which might benefit from being "rad" politically.
[+] [-] TomK32|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mgoetzke|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tobr|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lynx23|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zpeti|2 years ago|reply
Teslas are doing just fine in Europe:
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/tesla-europe-sales-figures/
Almost no-one I know cares about what Musk says on twitter, they just want an good electric car, and they buy them. The Model Y is the top selling car in europe.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/tesla-model-y-likely-to-be-...
Please - at least look up figures before posting stuff like this.
Edit: it’s amazing I’m getting downvoted on HN which is supposedly a scientific community. The person I was replying to made claims which were wrong which I point out with numbers. Yet people are so obsessed with hating musk they downvote me.
[+] [-] JumpCrisscross|2 years ago|reply
A week ago that was Sweden. Now it's the Nordics. Let this marinate through Christmas, and it may find home in European legislatures.
[+] [-] filleokus|2 years ago|reply
Swedish labor laws are actually fairly lax (depends on what you compare with ofc), where the state has handed over essentially legislative power to the "parties", the large union organisations and organisations of employers / companies. A little corporatistic if you want.
These parties then negotiate and the resulting CBA's fills in blanks in the legislation (such as minimum salary levels etc) and other benefits. With a CBA in place, strikes are forbidden if the deal is kept. It's renegotiated every couple of years. Many companies / local unions also have local amendments (which are negotiated on a more local level).
This model is generally appreciated by both the unions and large enterprisey companies. It gives stability to the companies.
However... Tesla is of course not part of these employer organisations. A typical software startup or even fairly large (< ≈1000) white-collar employers are not part of these organisations either. About 10% of workers are outside of CBA (like me and probably the majority of developers in Stockholm). Those companies don't value having to commit to a CBA, might have different compensation schemes etc. The workers at these companies are typically happy and well compensated. It's not uncommon to see stuff like "Our pensions are according to the CBA" even if they don't sign the CBA.
Employees of these non-CBAcompanies can still be in the union though, as you get benefits even without CBA, and part of the unemployment insurance is typically through the union.
Further, according to both Swedish labour law and EU negative freedom of association principles, entering into a CBA is not required.
But, the whole Swedish model depends on most employers signing the CBA, especially those in blue collar industries where the risk of exploitation is higher. No union is going to strike about e.g McKinsey not having a CBA, but Tesla mechanics I think are too close to home of the blue collar unions.
I do wonder how this will end... Tesla signing an CBA seems out of the question, and I think the union might have overplayed their hand here. Many Tesla employees are not striking (nor want a CBA), many Tesla customers who might have had a good impression of the unions were pissed of when the union put a strike on e.g changing to winter tires of Tesla cars (even at non-tesla shops).
[+] [-] FirmwareBurner|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mongol|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mcv|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] idaseing|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ivolimmen|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ffgjgf1|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] parski|2 years ago|reply