[ckdot2]

Please, please don't mix up ORMs with ActiveRecords. ActiveRecords are one way to implement an ORM, but it's not the only way. I think many say they hate ORMs when they actually mean ActiveRecords. For bigger projects ActiveRecords suck, yes. But also you need to have some database layer logic which most likely does some Object & Relation Mapping (ORM).

[phendrenad2]

I disagree. POROs are the way to go.