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Kagi Search – Paywalled articles indicator and improved weather widget

421 points| mroche | 2 years ago |kagi.com | reply

254 comments

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[+] aryonoco|2 years ago|reply
Every once in a while, I looked for an alternative to Google. I have given them all a go, but none of them stayed as my default for more than a few days. Until Kagi.

I absolutely did not think I would pay for a search engine. Especially as I've recently been on a quest to cut every unnecessary subscription. YouTube Premium is gone (thanks to 83/% family plan price hike). Half of my dozen or so domains are gone... you get the idea. Who would pay for search, right!? I signed up for the free trial, fully expecting to walk away.

But have you noticed how the quality of Google has steadily deteriorated over the last decade or so? How it now just surfaces ad filled garbage, listicles, and regurgitated content, ad nauseam?

I'm sure it's not just me who prefers what Google used to show around 2011.

Kagi is like the Google of 2011. Except, better. You can combine a bunch of domains you think are related and create a "lens" to just search them. It comes with a bunch of pre-built lenses, so you can search for academic results, or forum posts or pdfs. You can tell Kagi if a website is good or not, and it will then tailor your results according to your preferences.

It kind of feels like what Google could have been, if the brilliant minds employed there weren't just tasked with chasing billions more in ad revenue every quarter.

Honestly, its results are better than Google's. Forget the lack of ads and them not tracking you and not selling your data (from which Google Search apparently makes on average $300 USD every year from every user). Just purely based on the search results, Kagi is better.

I've recently converted my plan to a "Duo" plan, and the SO, who doesn't over care about privacy and ads and stuff, also likes it. #win

[+] chrisandchris|2 years ago|reply
Similar here. I didn't know Kagi until, as I remember, there was an article here on HN. I thought too why should I pay for search?

Kagi basically won me after I realised I can exclude whole domains from search results - now Pinterest, Stackshare and all those AI-generated content filler sites are gone from my search results. Search results are great and it's just worth it.

The only advantage Google so far has IMHO is location-aware search. For certain keywords (like "gym") it feels like Google better looks for results that are within your area, whereas Kagi needs some more input (like a city/district name).

[+] jcul|2 years ago|reply
Yes, also the same experience. Who would pay for search right?

I signed up for the $10 plan, before they introduced unlimited searches. One month I went over and thought ok, I'm not really ok with making more than 10. A few weeks later they switched to unlimited.

The lens feature is great. I have one for searching my company's public documentation etc.

The redirect thing is great too, it can rewrite URLs on the fly, e.g. Reddit -> old.reddit.

I have used other search engines in the past, like ddg for a long period, and others. I always ended up just doing !g on every search.

Kagi is the first where I don't notice I'm using another search engine and actually if I'm on Google I notice my experience is worse!

Great to see updates like this, in the months I've been using it it has improved so much already.

[+] widenrun|2 years ago|reply
Exactly, it reminds me of this:

"Drift to low performance is a gradual process. If the system state plunged quickly, there would be an agitated corrective process. But if it drifts down slowly enough to erase the memory of (or belief in) how much better things used to be, everyone is lulled into lower and lower expectations, lower effort, lower performance."

-- From the book "Thinking in Systems".

[+] hovering_nox|2 years ago|reply
I feel like people are sleeping on Kagi FastGPT, its their amazing search combined with their summariser and a llm model that gives me the answers directly without having to search myself.

https://kagi.com/fastgpt

[+] plutokras|2 years ago|reply
I tried out Kagi, but then I asked myself: “why pay for it if it's only marginally better than Google?”. Then I realized Kagi has won. The sentiment about non-Google search engines used to be something like “XY is slightly worse than Google, but it respects your privacy, why not use it instead”?. The trade-off is no more. So I am customer since then. Love the domain ranking system.

I hope they will continue to focus on their core product and don't branch out to do something else.

[+] llamaInSouth|2 years ago|reply
For me, Google search started declining dramatically in quality when they took away the Plus Operator ... which was probably around that time

You would think a mega company would think more long term then that

[+] vachina|2 years ago|reply
Ditto. Got to know Kagi via HN and found myself needing to use Kagi more often.

Google search feels more like shopping search nowadays.

[+] M4v3R|2 years ago|reply
I was exactly the same. I tried various search engines but always reverted back to Google after a while. I think I stuck with DDG for the longest time but it wasn't enough to win me. And somehow Kagi managed to do it and now I'm a very happy paying customer of theirs.
[+] lhnz|2 years ago|reply
I'm also a happy Kagi user.

There are only two reasons I still visit Google:

  1. I'm based in the UK and often it shows me shops based
     in the US high up within my search results.
  2. Sometimes I specifically like to visit Google Shopping
     to find the lowest prices online for an item I'm trying
     to buy.
Once Kagi has improved these two areas I'll have no reason at all to ever visit Google (other than Google Maps or Google Translate).
[+] mderazon|2 years ago|reply
For me, Chatgpt / Bard and similar (Perplexity) has replaced 85 percent of Google searches so I feel Kagi will be a step backwards in this regard

Perhaps better than Google, but the whole paradigm shifted

[+] dwighttk|2 years ago|reply
Sounds nice…

I just don’t use search enough to want to pay. Perhaps that is because it is not so great though.

[+] huggingmouth|2 years ago|reply
I desperately wish I could use kagi but tying my identity to my searches is an automatic nogo. Is kagi interested in offering a Mulvad-grade option where everything is in ram and NO data is tied to my account?

Kagi, if you're listening. Please.

[+] lofaszvanitt|2 years ago|reply
I tried a lot of search engines and the one that didn't irritate me with out of place results was swisscows.
[+] throwaway81523|2 years ago|reply
Kagi is ok but I don't understand the level of gushing over it that I see here. I got the 100 query free trial a few months ago and haven't used it up yet. So I'm not willing to buy a monthly subscription for something I'd rarely (won't say never) use. A flat $20 for 500 queries would be fine and might last me a year or so.
[+] tastyminerals2|2 years ago|reply
Just a couple of weeks ago, and this is a perfect moment to share, a colleague told me how he wanted to reschedule a flight and in a hurry clicked on one of the first Google provided links (ads) and got redirected to a scam site which was identical to the one his airline uses. In the end, he had to suspend his credit card and lost money. He lost more than any of the Kagi billing plans would cost him. But you are right, ppl tend to justify their choices more, especially when they paid for them ;) Still, no harm knowing there is a good alternative out there I guess.
[+] alemanek|2 years ago|reply
For me it is a combination of the search results being of equal or slightly better quality combined with all the nice little touches (Lens, auto redirect, etc). I am trying to banish ads in general and Google specifically from my life so I am also a little biased.

Last 2 months I used around 500 searches each month. So, the unlimited pricing is good for me.

[+] jve|2 years ago|reply
Yeah, my trial was also sitting with unused searches because I treated it as a scarce resource and couldn't search like I would.

Because of GPT4 and Claude 2 chat models available in Ultimate plan, I thought I'd gonna try it for a month.

No problems using it for daily search/google/bing replacement. Just few times I tried fallback to google and the results where either about the same or once the google gave trash.

Yeah, but I bought it for AI features more than the search.

[+] hackideiomat|2 years ago|reply
Do you still use other search engines?

You should start to do your everyday searches on both and compare the results. For me, this showed that kagi can save me time, I'm rarely scrolling to find good results where on DDG or Google I'd rephrase and search again often.

I don't like Kagi for other things, but that's not the topic here.

[+] jryb|2 years ago|reply
It does seem unremarkable sometimes, but every now and again I'll accidentally search for something in a private browser session (which defaults to google) and I'll immediately think, "these results are terrible, what happened?" and then i'll notice i'm not on kagi. That experience happening about a dozen times really sealed the deal for me.
[+] MrJohz|2 years ago|reply
I'm also not sure I quite get the love. I got the free trial, and I've set it as my browser's default search engine for now to get used to using it. The problem for me is that it's at best equivalent to, and at worst a lot poorer than the same search in Google. Which is a shame, because I've been finding Google less and less useful recently.

Maybe I need to fiddle around with the settings more, get some better filters in there. But part of the advantage of Google is not needing to fiddle - it knows that I probably want programming results if I search for "rust" and things like that. I'll stick Kagi out a bit longer, because I really like the idea of it, but I've been fairly disappointed so far.

EDIT: one specific criticism is that I speak English but live in Germany, so I typically want English-language results except around German-specific things where I want local results more. Setting my location to Germany results in a lot of German results for unrelated searches (e.g. documentation for some library, or information about an actor), but setting it to "international" makes it harder to find the local results I'm often looking for (e.g. libraries in my local area). Google isn't great at this either, but it gets it right a lot more often.

[+] jcul|2 years ago|reply
You are clearly in a different usage bracked to me.

I had the opposite problem, I used up my 1000 searches within a month and didn't want to pay more than 10$.

They since introduced unlimited searches for 10$ so I'm pretty happy.

[+] justinclift|2 years ago|reply
Be careful with the "100 free searches" limit, it's not always really 100.

If you click the "More" button at the bottom of the search results page it reduces the number of free searches left.

In hindsight, it probably means they're re-running the search again with different parameters, thus "using" another free search.

However it's not at all obvious to the user that asking to display more results from an existing list would do this. :(

Frankly, it seems a bit dishonest to me. Which is unfortunate, as I otherwise liked Kagi.

[+] salad-tycoon|2 years ago|reply
I like Kagi , I do. I like the ranking, I like how I can search for controversial people and not have my intended search target censored by obfuscation. Kagi just gives me the data. That’s great!

I pay the 5 a month but I run out mid month which makes me not use it and breaks the habit and worry. I’m considering the 10 a month but then I think I get 500gb e2ee cloud+email+email hosting+vpn+a couple of other small things from proton for $8.33 a month.

I guess I’m a heavy user, one day supposedly I had >30 searches (that I don’t recall). I want to pay but not that much. So I just learn to live with an inferior product.

So now I’m stuck between wanting to pay more and wanting to outright cancel.

Although sometimes reading HN news updates feels a bit weird/ad like (watch how negative downvotes get greyed out) I enjoy seeing them work on it and wish them the most success.

Ps I do appreciate their ios and mac apps that help with safari. Sadly I think all the spotlight, look up, and Siri searches still get processed out of kagis world. Obviously, not in their control.

Good luck Kagi.

[+] q0uaur|2 years ago|reply
I really hope they keep lowering the unlimited searches price. I'm pretty sure I use way less resources than my $10 pays for, but I just wanted it for the peace of mind - if enough people like me subscribe, they'll probably be able to lower it even more.

alternatively, I don't know how deeply embedded the LLM stuff is in kagi, but I really do not need that, so maybe a plan without that, since that is the stuff that requires a lot of expensive compute.

[+] carlosjobim|2 years ago|reply
> I’m considering the 10 a month but then I think I get 500gb e2ee cloud+email+email hosting+vpn+a couple of other small things from proton for $8.33 a month.

Just because Proton is a great deal doesn't make Kagi a worse deal. This kind of logic never made sense to me. The products have nothing in common, so why the comparison?

Then, also think about why you're worrying about spending $10 per month on a product that you think is great? Is that an amount of money that has any impact on your current life situation? I think a lot of people can't break the habit that everything on a computer has to be free.

[+] karmelapple|2 years ago|reply
It’s $10. Is there anything you use less frequently than a search engine in your life that you pay $10/month for? Coffee, eating out, etc?

And sure, I hope they lower the price, but for the hundreds of searches I do every month, not dealing with ads in my face is wonderful. And companies need to pay the bills somehow.

[+] pbronez|2 years ago|reply
FYI Kagi is working on an email offering. Check out #email on their discord.
[+] goplayoutside|2 years ago|reply
Another happy "Early Adopter"-flag Kagi customer here.

The search results are, ime, superior to Google, and it's great to be able to remove one more Google product from my life. The quality of the reviews sites that come up for product searches is night vs day.

The bang support is awesome (I use "I'm feeling lucky" daily) and I've been using the Universal Summarizer[0] more often lately. Customized promotion & demotion/blocking of domains is seamless and surfaces the content I'm trying to find.

Looking at using FastGPT[1] and Kagi Small Web[2] more. I wish they'd get their forum off of Discord and onto something open and indexable!

0. https://kagi.com/summarizer 1. https://kagi.com/fastgpt 2. https://kagi.com/smallweb

[+] gregdoesit|2 years ago|reply
I've been using Kagi as my default search engine for about 2 months now. I love it, and feel so far that it's well worth the $108 per year: just by not having to spend mental energy to scroll through the first several sponsored results; and try and decide if a result is paid or not.

I set Kagi to be my default search in my browser (Chrome). For specific searches like stocks, maps or restaurant reviews, I still use the "!g" bang to go to Google.

Never thought I'd pay for search: but very happy with my choice so far. Great to see others agree on this page - as I hope they can maintain this as a viable business, and stick to the principles of users being their customers: and not advertisers.

Feels like a breath of fresh air tbh.

[+] llamaInSouth|2 years ago|reply
I'm surprised how many people here don't use an ad blocker...
[+] tastyminerals2|2 years ago|reply
Subscribed for a year after a free trial. Returns more relevant results than Bing, snappy interface and just overall gives you a good impression. They have a fast GPT powered article summarizer, which I find extremely useful when exploring library documentation. Not something that a plain ChatGPT cannot do, of course, but Kagi is just faster. You should as well check out their lightweight webkit based browser, Orion (MacOS only).
[+] sph|2 years ago|reply
Thanks Kagi, love these status updates.

Vlad, I know you often read these comments, so here's a suggestion: I would love a way for Kagi to respect my search query and not try to interpret or assume anything is a typo. "Verbatim" feels just too strict (I think the order of the words is important as well, doesn't return more than 2 or 3 links), where the default is too loose.

Sadly, I don't have any examples to share, but it feels that as Kagi improves, it becomes more and more Google-like, as in trying to be smart instead of following my orders. I grew up when search engines searched for keywords, and were not trying to be smart. If I search for—foo bar baz—I want to be shown all pages that contain the three words as I have spelled them. Not presenting any combination of the three as valid.

Search engines trying to be smart make the web feel so small, because all the niche variations and topics are just so hard to search for, and it is the reason I stopped using Google in the first place.

Anyway, I am a happy paying user, and love the product :)

[+] rplnt|2 years ago|reply
How's your experience with non-english searches?

Google has become unusable to search in a foreign language if you do not happen to be in a given country. It's trying to be too smart. It's ignoring double quotes, tld restriction still searches for the sites in a language of the country I'm in, etc... it's really frustrating at times.

Not to mention Google can't search anything old anymore. It's either news or spam. Or irrelevant "autocorrect". And it used to be so great with a little bit of effort. 10+ years ago that is.

[+] 28304283409234|2 years ago|reply
For me it just brings a lot of peace of mind to be able to click on any link and not have it blocked by ublock or pihole.

All links are what Kagi believes to be valid results.

[+] kkoyung|2 years ago|reply
I have been using Kagi as my default search engine for a month now. It really provides better search experience than google.

Nowadays, Google Search is flooded by SEO. When you search things on Google, you will likely get tons of listicles titled "Top <keyword> 2023", "<keyword1> vs <keyword2> comparison", which barely contains some useful contents. Sometimes, you will even see some AI-generated gibberish articles repeating some basic information about your keywords. It becomes much harder to find useful contents from google than the old days.

Kagi search results have fewer nonsense articles. They groups those listicles together so that you can easily skip them. The feature I like the most is Personalized Results, which allows you to pin/raise/lower/block results from certain domains. For example, I pin wikipedia.org, and block quora.com.

[+] NewsGotHacked|2 years ago|reply
I bought a year of kagi and overly very satisfied. 2 things that annoy me about it: -I randomly get irrelevant international results as a US person (Amazon Canada and Amazon India for instance) -There are inconsistently labeled timestamps on things. I use reddit a lot when reviewing search results. Sometimes the reddit links are timestamped and sometimes they aren't. Leads to end up clicking on a reddit link that is 6 or 8 years old and no longer revelant.

Other than that is works really well!

[+] hprotagonist|2 years ago|reply
Kagi’s ability to acquire name recognition among tech-centric people is not only what convinced me to pay for it - it was one of two or three fairly simultaneous things that made me reconsider the magnitude of the financial stake i have had in $GOOG since 2005. It’s less than it was a month ago.
[+] seanthemon|2 years ago|reply
I had huge issues with Kagi because I don't just use google for research, but to find local things like finding a coffee shop in a location or using reviews to see what's going on, or some product I need to buy in my country - 70% of my searches fall in that category and I generally use AI or some light research for programming topics. Although the google results are poorer, the facility offering is far superior and I found I was switching between Kagi and Google too often. I think it's great for research, but not so great for researching day-to-day things you use in real life outside of the computer.
[+] madkat|2 years ago|reply
I love kagi. It's the first search product I'm willing to spend money on
[+] nlnn|2 years ago|reply
I'm also a very happy Kagi customer, the price is worth being able to ditch yet another Google product for me (being able to completely block Pinterest/Medium and other annoying domains is great).

The only thing I still occasionally use Google search for is the Shopping tab, which I find handy for filtering results to product listings (though if anyone's got any tips for this in Kagi, happy to hear!).

[+] nalekberov|2 years ago|reply
I am still not convinced that I should trust Kagi. Why should I use my email address to log into the system? They say that it's for them to know how much credit you have left. Mullvad does generate a unique number for you, which you can use indefinitely.
[+] freeAgent|2 years ago|reply
You can create an account with an aliased/unique email address.
[+] throwbmw|2 years ago|reply
Kagi is mind blowingly good. It's almost unbelievable first time you use it. Like you forgot that there could be good, interesting and relevant stuff on first page of results.. I am mad at myself for not trying it earlier.
[+] martin82|2 years ago|reply
I think during the last three months or so, I only used the !g flag four or five times.

It seems as if Kagi has indeed become a truly viable alternative to Google.

Whenever I do use the !g flag, the results over at Google are just awful, sometimes I have to scroll 1.5 screens just to get past the ads. Imagine running a search engine and not delivering meaningful results above the fold.

Google is a zombie company now.

[+] ndom91|2 years ago|reply
Man I really like this, but I'm having trouble convincing myself that $10/month for unlimited searches is worth it.. I guess thats what ~20 years of using Google and other free search engines will do to you haha

I would jump on a $5/month unlimited queries plan though. And I'm sure I'm not alone in that bucket