[jlangenauer]

I was born in Australia and live in Germany, and I think I see something of the same: in both countries, there is no sense of purpose, no raison d'etre. There is no national project beyond managing a series of externally-imposed and self-inflicted crises, and no obvious direction for the future to guide the decisions taken today.

So our politics (in both countries) becomes reactive and unanchored, solving whatever problem seems most pressing today, and ultimately devoid of meaning. What do individuals do in such an environment? They look after themselves, they partake in consumerism, they try to protect themselves against things the state can no longer be bothered to. It's all very nihilistic, and thus the deep anomie that seems to have infected most Western societies, and the younger generations most of all.

[afarrell]

My purpose is to care for the people I can as I learn to love and be loved.

It is not the job of the nation-state to give people a deep sense of purpose. That is a job for a church, temple, or other spiritual community. Governments which try to do that job tend to do badly, sometimes with monstrous results. They ought be separate.

[arp242]

It seems to me that historically, "the church, temple, or other spiritual community" filling that role has come with all the same downsides as the nation-state filling that role. And that's not a comment about religion – any organisation is at risk of abuse of that type because that's just how humans and organisations work.

And fully agree with "care for the people I can as I learn to love and be loved", but at the same time people do need some sense of "community", "togetherness", and "we're all in it together"-ness, especially in times when things are perhaps not going so well, and I do feel that's rather been lost.

[neffy]

Let me suggest that the reason you label the church as the body responsible for the deep sense of purpose, is that the Church in all societies used to be, and in some cases still is, the Government. Europe's cathedrals were the middle-ages equivalent of work programs. (All those church tithes had to be spent on something.)

It has also done that job spectacularly badly at times.

[personomas]

The states of Germany and Austria take away a persons purpose because these states are very authoritative and oppressive. Governments shouldn't try to give people a purpose, but they should develop a country via laws that enable or encourage its people to find purpose. Socialism does the opposite, as it's based on the logic of taking away from people who have, and giving to those who don't, which means taking away from those people who found purpose, and giving to those who don't and usually don't seek purpose but instead search for temporarily pleasures like alcohol.

[grecy]

I was once told "Australian's don't know how to live, they just die slowly". I've spent a lot of time thinking about that.

(For context, I was born there, but left almost 20 years ago. I recently spent 18 months exploring the whole country, and sadly I now agree with the above quote)

[southernplaces7]

Hundreds of millions of people around the world somehow manage to live perfectly decent lives dedicating themselves to the personal purposes of their choice and to giving their loved ones a bright future. Much of this is what you might deride as "consumerism". It's generally a good thing to aspire to, and without having to have some collectivized state-level notion of "purpose" crammed into one's life.

No thank you. For those who want such wider purpose, by all means, aspire away while leaving others alone to live their peaceful private ends, but it's absurd to think that a country "needs" it, or some crisis to be a good place to live. A country only needs stable, law-abiding, transparent government for decency. Considering how many places lack even that, it should be purpose enough in a basic sense, with a firm onus on the bureaucrats to provide it.

If anything, bullshit about purpose and so-called national projects has been used to justify centuries of horrific repression and destructiveness while a select few leaders impose thier specific idea of what's needed on those they can dictate to.

[macNchz]

The article being discussed describes the collective sense of purpose in Bulgaria as being at its peak post-communism, when the populace was excited to be free from repression and able to try new things, start businesses etc. You’re basically agreeing with the author.

It does seem, however, that there are many concerning trends in social measures in western countries these days, particularly among things that have traditionally given people a sense of purpose on an individual level. So it may behoove us to discuss and think about why that may be, and what we can do collectively to inspire the kind of societal outlook that is likely to promote a different trend in those measures.

[lmm]

> Hundreds of millions of people around the world somehow manage to live perfectly decent lives dedicating themselves to the personal purposes of their choice and to giving their loved ones a bright future. Much of this is what you might deride as "consumerism". It's generally a good thing to aspire to, and without having to have some collectivized state-level notion of "purpose" crammed into one's life.

Citation? Haven't we seen a rise in despair and loneliness (and ultimately in people dying of these things), even as people's material condition got better?

[flextheruler]

I think what you’re getting at is that societies define themselves based on external threats.

Psychologically speaking on a group level it is much easier to say what we are not and define ourselves based on that than it is to develop an internal definition of ourselves.

You can see this in the history of national identities coalescing around external threats such as the American identity being sidelined for state identity until the revolution.

This is a well-studied phenomenon and contributes to the post-colonial failed states with arbitrary borders. Remove the colonial power and you’ve removed the national identity and cause massive fragmentation and dysfunction.

I’m not sure there is a solution to this in a nuclear world as it is in our biology and has served us well up until the point where we developed genocidal tools and processes which justifiable scare the developed world into relenting from defining external groups as major antagonists.

As much as a strong national identity can give great cohesion and confidence it can now also teeter the world or parts of it into apocalypse which it has basically done twice now and loomed over us a third time with the Cold War. I sense we have a new Cold War now and it has been looming for almost decade. To me this is our great filter and I am forcefully optimistic we can figure something out because the alternative is utter destruction.

[Vektorceraptor]

In Bulgaria, the people are able to agree, that life is shit. Why can't we agree in the west?

I mean - why is there always someone who is eager to prove you wrong? What has western society become? So many people feel the same, yet they can't get together to agree ... why?

[justworkout]

A lot of people agree that life is shit in the west as well.

The problem is if you don't align with the politics of the person you're conversing with when you say that, they'll get pissed and claim you hate their country and should leave. But they'll readily turn around and also say the country is shit, just for different reasons and claim the biggest problem is people like you who are standing up for the shitty system that's in place.

[bratbag]

Maybe not as many people feel this as you think.