Login button: 3 times I see the word "Nsec" without any explanation, that would lose a lot of youtubers from transitioning
But a bigger issue is that googling about nsec tells me it's a very bad practice: "Some argue that the user should never enter their nsec into an input field at the risk of being compromised by the service.
Given the nature of nostr, users cannot recover from a leaked private key and must take greater
precaution than they would with a username/password combination."
https://nostrdesign.org/docs/how-to/sign-in-sign-up/
(also pip for some reason stops playing when I switch to another page on the site)
> “Given the nature of nostr, users cannot recover from a leaked private key and must take greater precaution than they would with a username/password combination.”
This is a complete dealbreaker for any end-user product. I don’t understand why crypto/blockchain fans still think it can work.
It is correct that it is bad practice to paste an nsec, but a lot of nostr services allow it. The login DOES support "login with extension" which is far preferred and much safer. Your private key is stored in a browser plugin and is not transmitted.
Experienced Nostr users will understand this, but I totally agree with your point about making it easier for non-nostr users. Also, they should (at least) strongly encourage people to use a browser extension / wallet instead of pasting their nsec, and provide a guide on how to do that and why.
That's the reason I personally avoid Nostr. I know it's unfair because Nostr itself is actually a cool protocol that has nothing to do with bitcoin, but the stench of that is hard to wash off. I wouldn't want to build something that becomes associated with bitcoin just because of the name of the protocol.
It's like whenever there was a reddit/twitter/etc alternative some years ago following outrage, it'd get flooded with some of the worst people on the internet. Voat comes to mind as a pretty competent reddit clone that had potential, until it got overrun with nazis/racists and other kinds of losers. I was very close to releasing an app for that one, but abandoned it once it became clear the direction the userbase was going.
That’s just the nature of Nostr at the moment. It’s very Bitcoin adjacent. There’s significant overlap between Nostr and Bitcoin developers. Also, Bitcoin (through Lightning) is the currency used on Nostr for anything and everything.
I can totally see how that’s off putting for normal people though.
So how will you cope with DMCA takedown requests and what will you do when all major medias companies will sue your ass?
You may try to pretend it is not your content and explain how the protocol works and all that but as long as you will host a frontend and own the domain name you will be considered the one to sue.
For you and others following. Common in early nostr apps. The web-extension spec is defined in https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/07.md. Most apps check for window.nostr, then fail silently when it's missing or blocked. There are also some popular extensions in that list.
Yeah, onboarding could use some love. This happens a lot with Nostr projects. It's built by Nostr nerds for Nostr nerds and to them "nsec" is super obvious. They really should NOT ENCOURAGE PASTING NSEC as it is not secure and explain how to generate an nsec and how to use a browser extension / wallet to log in.
Yeah, you're probably better off getting setup with a nostr account on https://primal.net/home or Damus. You'd need a nostr extension for the extension button to work
decentralized anything never works at scale, this is what all the techie founders never grasp. what happens if someone uploads a child porn video or cartel beheading video on your website? because of your algorithm ll stack things by watch time it ll get to the front page in no time. What measures/controls do you have because your site explicitly says "we can't strike, shadow-ban, or demonetize you just because we disagree"
The problem with decentralized is more of UX and latency than moderation, IMO.
Just look at Mastodon. The issue is not the crazy content you get from time to time. What’s annoying is waiting for media to appear on your timeline and explaining newcomers that they must choose a server and the double @@ thing.
The second is a one-time thing at signup and perhaps surpassable. The first is a deal breaker. Anyone used to Instagram and TikTok’s timeline would just dismiss it as broken on the spot.
I just used something called “the internet” to read your message. As opposed to one of those corporate owned networks for computer-like devices from the eighties.
Bitcoin, a decentralized something, is the 10th largest global market cap asset - $855b. Gold is#1 at $13T. Mortgage backed securities are $11t, for reference.
That to me is working at scale, and all the “what ifs” you’re referencing have happened to Bitcoin, but it is still around since 2009.
Edit, as someone else commented - we are also all talking via the internet, at its core a decentralized technology of combined infrastructure, routing protocols, and DNS tracking. The presence or involvement of centralized entities doesn’t count against that fact.
Just because it's not bannable doesn't mean you can't stop advertising it on the front page. Same way mastodon instances are moderated even though you can't stop people from creating instances with their own content. (It's not ideal, but neither is centralised moderation)
As evidenced by how Fediverse works (Mastodon for example); The networks actively ban bad acting networks, have very active set of moderators on each network, etc. How is this any different from centralized thing?
Makes me wonder if LBRY went with Lightning instead of creating a shitcoin token they would probably still be around today and maybe even integrating with Nostr.
Nostr has numerous NIPs or Nostr implementation possibilities many of which address the concerns below:
- nsec: a user name / password option has been created- although I think there are numerous “normies” who go are over the password login pattern
- moderation: at least two clients have implemented moderation NIPs and open sourced their code for expanding the capabilities
- CSAM: there are separate services that host media content and partner with CSAm filtering tools to provide the basic filtering you would receive on FB etc.
- a few clients offer delete - and while nothing ever truly goes away, it can be helpful if the trolls come after someone.
- in terms of the content, you already curate some of your other feeds by following and unfollowing people or brands, yes there is a lot of bitcoin content but you can optimize your feed to see other types of content.
Nostr is a protocol for the decentralized sharing of Notes and Other Stuff (Through Relays). Nostr uses private keys for accounts, and nsec is such a key.
This could really use RSS feeds for channels and playlists so that I can follow publishers that I find. Right now there is so little interesting channels that I will never remember to check back. If I could subscribe via RSS I wouldn't miss a video.
>How is the infrastructure and bandwidth paid for?
For bandwidth intensive usage such as video, it will probably be "paid relays" instead of free ones. Click on url in the "Popular paid relays" paragraph to see examples:
The "notes" (non-video content) are hosted on relays like everything in Nostr.
The media is hosted on regular web servers and it says you can host it anywhere. It seems like most of the videos are hosted here: https://nostr.build/
Paid relays look like they cost on average 5000 lightning, which is estimated at $65 USD currently, and that's a one time fee (until they get recurring payments set up, I'm guessing most relays will convert to that).. but flare in their FAQ recommends getting 8-10 relays.
I love that nostr identity is not tied to an instance (unlike activitypub/mastondon/fediverse)! However ignoring some (IMO) fundamental problems (because they are not problems until you hit scale) like hosting, somewhat moderation and letting that be solved "layer above" is a mistake (IMO) it will probably create non standardized APIs for paying for hosting or sth.
As for community it is heavily based on bitcoin/lightning enthusiasts and a lot of content revolving just around that - probably won't attract people outside the circle/general public (which may not be the goal or preferable outcome!)
I think Bluesky/atproto has a reasonable compromise in this department. At any single point in time your identity is bound to a specific instance, but that binding is mutable.
You might be surprised on how relatively popular it is among some Japanese users. They have their own clients and relays and most of them are not even into Bitcoin.
Saving you a click: this is a video sharing platform built on oh-so-legit crypto/bitcoin/nft protocols/stacks, and the value-add (!) is that it's not moderated. What could possibly go wrong.
How are the videos hosted? Is the server FOSS? I'm curious to know how it all works behind the scenes. Is it just a video host that slaps nostr on the label, like YouTube but notified followers via nostr instead of RSS, or is this actually sending and storing videos using nostr relays or some other way?
Cool, you built your own YouTube with hookers and coke and... bitcoin. Lots and lots of bitcoin. Cause lord knows there's literally (checks notes) dozens of people out there clamoring for an "Anti-censorship" streaming platform where they can watch spammy bitcoin videos.
[+] [-] eviks|2 years ago|reply
Login button: 3 times I see the word "Nsec" without any explanation, that would lose a lot of youtubers from transitioning
But a bigger issue is that googling about nsec tells me it's a very bad practice: "Some argue that the user should never enter their nsec into an input field at the risk of being compromised by the service. Given the nature of nostr, users cannot recover from a leaked private key and must take greater precaution than they would with a username/password combination." https://nostrdesign.org/docs/how-to/sign-in-sign-up/
(also pip for some reason stops playing when I switch to another page on the site)
[+] [-] pavlov|2 years ago|reply
This is a complete dealbreaker for any end-user product. I don’t understand why crypto/blockchain fans still think it can work.
[+] [-] itslennysfault|2 years ago|reply
Experienced Nostr users will understand this, but I totally agree with your point about making it easier for non-nostr users. Also, they should (at least) strongly encourage people to use a browser extension / wallet instead of pasting their nsec, and provide a guide on how to do that and why.
[+] [-] smcleod|2 years ago|reply
Something that put me off a bit was immediately seeing bitcoin influencer content after loading the page.
[+] [-] bogwog|2 years ago|reply
It's like whenever there was a reddit/twitter/etc alternative some years ago following outrage, it'd get flooded with some of the worst people on the internet. Voat comes to mind as a pretty competent reddit clone that had potential, until it got overrun with nazis/racists and other kinds of losers. I was very close to releasing an app for that one, but abandoned it once it became clear the direction the userbase was going.
[+] [-] jgilias|2 years ago|reply
I can totally see how that’s off putting for normal people though.
[+] [-] prmoustache|2 years ago|reply
You may try to pretend it is not your content and explain how the protocol works and all that but as long as you will host a frontend and own the domain name you will be considered the one to sue.
[+] [-] RF_Savage|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skinkestek|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] KomoD|2 years ago|reply
there's an "nsec" field which i have no clue what it is
there's a "connect with nsec" button which again, i don't know what it is.
and then there's "login with extension" button which does nothing.
[+] [-] vnuge|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] itslennysfault|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zm44|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vivzkestrel|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tambourine_man|2 years ago|reply
Just look at Mastodon. The issue is not the crazy content you get from time to time. What’s annoying is waiting for media to appear on your timeline and explaining newcomers that they must choose a server and the double @@ thing.
The second is a one-time thing at signup and perhaps surpassable. The first is a deal breaker. Anyone used to Instagram and TikTok’s timeline would just dismiss it as broken on the spot.
[+] [-] jgilias|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dogman144|2 years ago|reply
That to me is working at scale, and all the “what ifs” you’re referencing have happened to Bitcoin, but it is still around since 2009.
Edit, as someone else commented - we are also all talking via the internet, at its core a decentralized technology of combined infrastructure, routing protocols, and DNS tracking. The presence or involvement of centralized entities doesn’t count against that fact.
[+] [-] viraptor|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] askonomm|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rambambram|2 years ago|reply
I'm pretty impressed by this thing called 'the internet'.
[+] [-] irusensei|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sph|2 years ago|reply
- Build it without crypto
- If you build it with crypto, base it off Bitcoin.
Anything else might as well be a product based on a pump-and-dump shitcoin. There is only one cryptocurrency, and Satoshi is its prophet.
[+] [-] OsrsNeedsf2P|2 years ago|reply
* as fine as an alt-YouTube ever does
[+] [-] kinakomochidayo|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] edent|2 years ago|reply
But, regardless, how's this better than PeerTube?
[+] [-] Retr0id|2 years ago|reply
Nostr is interesting because it's not actually P2P, just decentralised - whether that's a good thing is open to question.
[+] [-] zaik|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Setch-l|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwway1922|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] once_inc|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zm44|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] irusensei|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kevincox|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bagels|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jasode|2 years ago|reply
For bandwidth intensive usage such as video, it will probably be "paid relays" instead of free ones. Click on url in the "Popular paid relays" paragraph to see examples:
https://nostr.how/en/relays
Nostr is popular with the cryptocurrency community so the payment mechanics seem to favor Bitcoin and/or Bitcoin Lightning.
[+] [-] itslennysfault|2 years ago|reply
The media is hosted on regular web servers and it says you can host it anywhere. It seems like most of the videos are hosted here: https://nostr.build/
Which is a paid service backed by AWS S3
[+] [-] kevindamm|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mab122|2 years ago|reply
As for community it is heavily based on bitcoin/lightning enthusiasts and a lot of content revolving just around that - probably won't attract people outside the circle/general public (which may not be the goal or preferable outcome!)
[+] [-] Retr0id|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] irusensei|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zopieux|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LeonM|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] irusensei|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] friend_and_foe|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rfwhyte|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] DeathArrow|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rekoil|2 years ago|reply
For the future, might be good to register the domain a little while before the launch to avoid this.
[+] [-] poulpy123|2 years ago|reply