When I searched the article for “billion”, I saw only two occurrences in the article (plus one in the headline). The impression I got is that there is a multi-billion dollar worldwide compliance industry, which does multiple things, including check for child labor.
But I wasn’t remotely convinced that this industry is paid billions to root out child labor in the US. Was there evidence provided that indicates this?
Well, that totally trashes UL's reputation. They used to be Underwriters Laboratories, a nonprofit owned by insurance companies, and had a good reputation. Their only product was neutral safety evaluations.
Then, in 2012, they "reorganized" and became a for-profit organization. In 2022, they reorganized again. Their century-old reputation is now toast.
- They tell them weeks in advance they will be making an inspection
- The inspectors only work banker hours.
- Inspectors are low paid government workers making them susceptible to bribes and various other pay to play manipulation.
- No one really cares about the violations, its just about checking off lists to say it was done.
- Status quo is what matters.
- Even when inspectors find something they often ignore it unless its truly egregious because it will cause more work for the inspector then ignoring it.
- Inspectors,even true believers in the cause are eventually worn down by the bureaucracy and push back from powerful people to keep status quo.
You tell a fun anecdotal narrative but in other cases those workers show up unannounced and threaten to separate families if they don't allow entrance even though of course that's unconstitutional. You can't reduce it to a single story here.
I opened the article wondering why, then the first line said "Private auditors", and then it was pretty clear to me. Why would you ever rely on auditors paid with private sector profit to care for basic human rights? Especially when paid for by a huge corporation?
The answer must lie in strengthening the Labor department, but that's a whole another problem I imagine.
Child Labor, like illegal immigration, like having a narco state on its borders, like endless wars, like keeping opium production at record levels during its unjust, cruel, and senseless occupation of Afghanistan, benefits the US elites.
It does not benefit you or I, plebes, but the holy few that are chasing profits at all costs while crushing everyone else.
The US has a history of doing highly illegal stuff for profits and the unwashed masses be damned.
This is just a lame attempt at saying that there's a problem and it's being addressed. It's like if you know your neighbor is very hungry and instead of inviting them for diner or giving them a nice meal, you give them a crinkled dollar.
I always go back to the Tyson Chicken raids a few years ago to show just how broken this is.
ICE officials raided a few facilities a few years ago, and actually found about 900 undocumented workers.
Many of them gave evidence to officials, including written instructions from the company that advised them how to fill out employment, banking, taxation paperwork if they "didn't have documentation", i.e. Tyson didn't just know this was the case, they were actively enabling it.
And in press conferences, when journalists asked about any plans to investigate/punish Tyson, ICE "had no plans to do so".
What it actually ended up looking like, with some other safety issues raised around that time is that Tyson perhaps decided their undocumented workers were getting a little too angry about poor safety standards, and making waves. It would be entirely unsurprising if Tyson made a sweetheart deal with ICE that said "Hey, if you come to these plants, you'll get to make this big stink about undocumented workers" (and remember, this was during the Trump administration), "but in return, can you leave us out of it?".
"Won't someone rid me of these meddlesome workers?"
But we still keep buying the products of misery and exploitation. I
guess the smartphone users who saw Foxconn put up "anti-suicide" nets
and carried on shopping as usual don't really care that much?
- migrant children show up and work and just lie about their age or supply forged documentation, which is impossible to verify for the company or any US agency.
- not enough government inspectors, and not enough latitude during inspections for private inspectors; e.g., having to request permission to show up on second shift.
(2) is easy to solve with money, but I have no idea what anyone could be expected to do about (1), unless you decide to aggressively prosecute companies relying on migrant workers, which is politically untenable for both parties.
>migrant children show up and work and just lie about their age or supply forged documentation, which is impossible to verify for the company or any US agency.
Except it is possible, obviously, as the Department of Labor ultimately discovered the child labor. Auditing isn't simply looking over some spreadsheets, I've had to audit inventory before back in the day and we had to go to the warehouse and verify actual inventory. These auditors aren't doing their due diligence because these auditors aren't hired to find any issues, they're hired to provide a passed audit. The solution is that these audits shouldn't be privatized, or significantly heftier fines need to be levied to align incentives.
Isn't cheaper labor the main reason for migrant workers?
Are you also sure that some of those child laborers are not eager to work?
For some of the older ones going through the hassle of migration only to depend on state handouts may not be good enough and the probably need to send some earnings to their families.
> Isn't cheaper labor the main reason for migrant workers?
I’m pretty sure the perception of a better quality of life is the main reason for migrant workers. I’ve never heard an H-1B say the reason they migrated is to drive down wages.
That’s not to say that employers don’t enjoy depressing the workers’ share of profits, but since migration to the USA is currently voluntary the desires of employers cannot be the main reason.
[+] [-] gnicholas|2 years ago|reply
But I wasn’t remotely convinced that this industry is paid billions to root out child labor in the US. Was there evidence provided that indicates this?
[+] [-] Animats|2 years ago|reply
Then, in 2012, they "reorganized" and became a for-profit organization. In 2022, they reorganized again. Their century-old reputation is now toast.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UL_(safety_organization)
[+] [-] mistrial9|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] citizenpaul|2 years ago|reply
- They tell them weeks in advance they will be making an inspection
- The inspectors only work banker hours.
- Inspectors are low paid government workers making them susceptible to bribes and various other pay to play manipulation.
- No one really cares about the violations, its just about checking off lists to say it was done.
- Status quo is what matters.
- Even when inspectors find something they often ignore it unless its truly egregious because it will cause more work for the inspector then ignoring it.
- Inspectors,even true believers in the cause are eventually worn down by the bureaucracy and push back from powerful people to keep status quo.
[+] [-] tprynn|2 years ago|reply
- https://www.propublica.org/article/child-welfare-search-seiz... - https://www.propublica.org/article/dcfs-illinois-investigati... - https://www.propublica.org/article/some-constitutional-right...
[+] [-] kristjank|2 years ago|reply
The answer must lie in strengthening the Labor department, but that's a whole another problem I imagine.
[+] [-] kthejoker2|2 years ago|reply
> the suppliers ... arrange and pay for the audits.
> After Mr. Callington failed three Walgreens suppliers ... the chain complained
> the supplier objected to his finding 21 violations when the previous audit had found none.
Who's paying for what.
Big vendor wants a shiny "responsibly sourced" badge.
Supplier wants a rubber stamp.
The real question is why bother with the actual audits?
[+] [-] ram4jesus|2 years ago|reply
It does not benefit you or I, plebes, but the holy few that are chasing profits at all costs while crushing everyone else.
The US has a history of doing highly illegal stuff for profits and the unwashed masses be damned.
This is just a lame attempt at saying that there's a problem and it's being addressed. It's like if you know your neighbor is very hungry and instead of inviting them for diner or giving them a nice meal, you give them a crinkled dollar.
[+] [-] FireBeyond|2 years ago|reply
ICE officials raided a few facilities a few years ago, and actually found about 900 undocumented workers.
Many of them gave evidence to officials, including written instructions from the company that advised them how to fill out employment, banking, taxation paperwork if they "didn't have documentation", i.e. Tyson didn't just know this was the case, they were actively enabling it.
And in press conferences, when journalists asked about any plans to investigate/punish Tyson, ICE "had no plans to do so".
What it actually ended up looking like, with some other safety issues raised around that time is that Tyson perhaps decided their undocumented workers were getting a little too angry about poor safety standards, and making waves. It would be entirely unsurprising if Tyson made a sweetheart deal with ICE that said "Hey, if you come to these plants, you'll get to make this big stink about undocumented workers" (and remember, this was during the Trump administration), "but in return, can you leave us out of it?".
"Won't someone rid me of these meddlesome workers?"
[+] [-] nonrandomstring|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Amezarak|2 years ago|reply
- migrant children show up and work and just lie about their age or supply forged documentation, which is impossible to verify for the company or any US agency.
- not enough government inspectors, and not enough latitude during inspections for private inspectors; e.g., having to request permission to show up on second shift.
(2) is easy to solve with money, but I have no idea what anyone could be expected to do about (1), unless you decide to aggressively prosecute companies relying on migrant workers, which is politically untenable for both parties.
[+] [-] rndmwlk|2 years ago|reply
Except it is possible, obviously, as the Department of Labor ultimately discovered the child labor. Auditing isn't simply looking over some spreadsheets, I've had to audit inventory before back in the day and we had to go to the warehouse and verify actual inventory. These auditors aren't doing their due diligence because these auditors aren't hired to find any issues, they're hired to provide a passed audit. The solution is that these audits shouldn't be privatized, or significantly heftier fines need to be levied to align incentives.
[+] [-] thedigitalone|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neonate|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vfclists|2 years ago|reply
Are you also sure that some of those child laborers are not eager to work?
For some of the older ones going through the hassle of migration only to depend on state handouts may not be good enough and the probably need to send some earnings to their families.
[+] [-] kelseyfrog|2 years ago|reply
The children yearn for the mines
[+] [-] User23|2 years ago|reply
I’m pretty sure the perception of a better quality of life is the main reason for migrant workers. I’ve never heard an H-1B say the reason they migrated is to drive down wages.
That’s not to say that employers don’t enjoy depressing the workers’ share of profits, but since migration to the USA is currently voluntary the desires of employers cannot be the main reason.
[+] [-] kelseyfrog|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geodel|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnicholas|2 years ago|reply