Everyone ought to read "A Chemical Hunger"(1) which posits that the relationship between altitude and obesity is real(2), and is mediated by lithium in the drinking water.
-Higher altitudes are associated with lower obesity rates in the US and other countries, including Spain and Tibet.
-Colorado, the highest-altitude US state, has the lowest obesity incidence.
-County-level obesity data in the US reveals clear patterns in the Rockies, Sierra Mountains, and Appalachians.
-"Altitude anorexia" causes sudden weight loss in individuals relocating to high-altitude areas.
-Similar weight loss effect is observed in lab rats moved to higher-altitude labs.
-Evidence suggests a relationship between altitude and lower diabetes rates, independent of variables like age and BMI.
-Oxygen and carbon dioxide variations with elevation alone do not explain the altitude-weight relationship.
-Submarines with elevated CO2 levels do not consistently lead to weight gain, refuting atmospheric explanations.
> Submarines with elevated CO2 levels do not consistently lead to weight gain, refuting atmospheric explanations
How are the reduced partial pressure of oxygen and low temperature rejected as causes? The two largest metabolic taxes I experience at altitude are the fatigue during acclimation, which I understand to be the production and maintenance of red blood cells (as well as dehydration), and lower temperatures.
actually according to the CDC Washington D.C. has a lower obesity rate than Colorado, but they do overlap with error bars. And D.C. is basically at sea level.
This lithium thing is laughable. They lean on a fake study that claims 100% efficacy in improving mood. I'm here to tell you it doesn't work that way.
My psychiatrist (trained in Forensics) insists that I have bipolar disorder and nothing else. She exclusively pushes bipolar medication, because I can't possibly suffer from anything else that can be treated any other way. She knows full well that lithium intake (as well as other drugs I've taken, such as Risperidone) nearly always leads to weight gain and obesity. I can draw clear and unambiguous lines from my hospitalizations to my weight gains--even after losing 180 pounds, I porked up again to all-time highs. These gains are chiefly due to my loss of self-esteem and confidence, but also to drugs. Gynecomastia, partly because of Risperidone, perhaps also due to obesity itself. (Don't let them pretend that gynecomastia is limited to adolescent boys; I'm 51.)
She also became quite anxious when I reported high levels of caffeine intake, but her concern for my anxiety was a mere façade: caffeine disrupts the activity of serum lithium and accelerates its elimination from the body, therefore invalidating any therapeutic levels that we might achieve by pill intake! So go ahead, guzzle that 2L Pepsi Cola, it will relieve the nasty adverse effects!
Long ago, upon my mid-90s "bipolar" "diagnosis", my father recounted a 100% B.S. anecdote of a small Italian village where they discovered everyone's mood was so mellow, and it was because of natural lithium deposits in their groundwater. I knew it was B.S. and I was appalled that my scientist father could believe such fairy tales, after teaching me everything about chemistry, biology, and geology, far beyond any college education I later obtained.
The physicians prescribing drugs also tag-team each other to see who can induce "side effect synergy". This is a syndrome that has no clinical term, because it's a dirty secret. Once you are on 3-4 different drugs, collate all the possible side effects, identify the ones you're suffering and the ones that may pre-exist, and you'll find that there's almost a deliberate escalation of adverse effects as they add more medications to your arsenal.
There is good news, folks; I am drug-free for 60 days as of this writing, and I feel better than ever. I have identified a regimen of supplements which I take faithfully, and supplements make me feel good, not ashamed and not oppressed. Supplements are food!
That's perhaps disingenuous: I do indeed take drugs - Traditional Medicinals teas are unambiguously natural drugs, to regulate my blood pressure, treat anxiety and agitation, and relieve pain and assist digestion. I have no trouble taking natural drugs; it's the pharmaceuticals that are toxic and overall, cause harm.
Since going drug-free, my diarrhea was relieved and I've lost nearly 20 pounds. My goal is 60 more pounds away and I'm confident, with divine help, that I can succeed with this. Of course, weight loss is a permanent lifestyle commitment and not a fad diet or a month in the gym. But it's the single most healthful thing we can do for ourselves; the benefits are limitless.
This paper did a pretty poor job of controlling for cultural factors IMO. I would think there are significant differences in local base culture between locations. E.g. maybe if you are assigned to Colorado Springs there is more of a local focus on outdoor activities that leads to improved fitness, vs if you were closer to sea level in the Mojave desert where its simply too hot to be so active outdoors outside of forced marching.
They also seem not to have controlled for terrain. High altitude locations are, generally, more mountainous. That means, even without any increase in perceived exercise, you are doing more vertical as you go about your day.
I grew up in the mountains. When I went to basic training I was all set for serious hiking. But basic training wasn't in the mountains. I was shocked at house easy long marches were when there were no real hills.
This was my experience when I moved to CO. On the east coast I had to drive to running trails and cycling routes by my house had no shoulders and a lot of traffic. In CO I had access to 120 miles of trails from my backyard and the roads had either dedicated bike lanes or wide shoulders.
Add in a walkable grocery store and I was a lot more active in CO than I was on the east coast.
Exactly my thought. High elevation could mean proximity to cool hikes, skiing, mountain biking, etc, while low elevation could equal corn fields and drinking beer while fishing on a lake.
... and please don't respond with counterpoint examples. Yes, I'm aware high elevation can be flat/boring and low elevation can be exciting and full of outdoor adventure.
A chart showing BMI vs altitude could help cut through individual bases differences. If there is a trend downward it would show a dose-response effect. I didn't find such a chart in the paper. Instead they have a chart showing how many data points were available by altitude.
From extensively researching the hpa-axis space my educated guess of what is going on:
At higher altitude you have higher levels of vitamin D, that in turn downregulates 21-Hydroxylase which means higher CRH is needed for the same levels of cortisol. The higher CRH means higher levels of Leptin, NPY, and Gastrin meaning less hunger and lower obesity rates.
This is presumably the same reasons why you gain weight all fall for winter/spring babies and lose it in the spring/summer. Just so happens at high altitudes you get more sun, more vitamin D.
I assumed, naively, this may have something to do with gas/air. Anyone whose lived at elevation and at sea level has probably noticed how bags of chips are flat at sea level, and bursting at the seems at 5k feet. Could that effect make us feel more full?
higher altitude means less oxygen, means you need to inhale/exhale more to get the proper amount of oxygen, and also faster heart rate. Is it possible the metabolism of people at higher altitudes burn more calories just trying to get the same amount of oxygen?
Thermodynamics is a prime suspect. Higher equals colder. The increased cost of temperature regulation would account for some extra fuel burning. The data should be available to separate the effects.
There was a paper about 10-15 years ago where they mentioned that they noticed decreased appetite and increased metabolism at higher altitudes. [1] kind of goes over this. I used to live in a high altitude town (~ 7000 ft) and definitely noticed that my appetite was much lower and whenever I traveled had much more stamina.
[+] [-] hammock|2 years ago|reply
(1)https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/08/02/a-chemical-hunger-p...
(2)
[+] [-] JumpCrisscross|2 years ago|reply
How are the reduced partial pressure of oxygen and low temperature rejected as causes? The two largest metabolic taxes I experience at altitude are the fatigue during acclimation, which I understand to be the production and maintenance of red blood cells (as well as dehydration), and lower temperatures.
[+] [-] kart23|2 years ago|reply
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/prevalence-maps.html
[+] [-] toast0|2 years ago|reply
From my circle of friends in the Navy, submarine food is not super appealing, which may be a large factor in weight difference observed after a tour.
[+] [-] NoZebra120vClip|2 years ago|reply
My psychiatrist (trained in Forensics) insists that I have bipolar disorder and nothing else. She exclusively pushes bipolar medication, because I can't possibly suffer from anything else that can be treated any other way. She knows full well that lithium intake (as well as other drugs I've taken, such as Risperidone) nearly always leads to weight gain and obesity. I can draw clear and unambiguous lines from my hospitalizations to my weight gains--even after losing 180 pounds, I porked up again to all-time highs. These gains are chiefly due to my loss of self-esteem and confidence, but also to drugs. Gynecomastia, partly because of Risperidone, perhaps also due to obesity itself. (Don't let them pretend that gynecomastia is limited to adolescent boys; I'm 51.)
She also became quite anxious when I reported high levels of caffeine intake, but her concern for my anxiety was a mere façade: caffeine disrupts the activity of serum lithium and accelerates its elimination from the body, therefore invalidating any therapeutic levels that we might achieve by pill intake! So go ahead, guzzle that 2L Pepsi Cola, it will relieve the nasty adverse effects!
Long ago, upon my mid-90s "bipolar" "diagnosis", my father recounted a 100% B.S. anecdote of a small Italian village where they discovered everyone's mood was so mellow, and it was because of natural lithium deposits in their groundwater. I knew it was B.S. and I was appalled that my scientist father could believe such fairy tales, after teaching me everything about chemistry, biology, and geology, far beyond any college education I later obtained.
The physicians prescribing drugs also tag-team each other to see who can induce "side effect synergy". This is a syndrome that has no clinical term, because it's a dirty secret. Once you are on 3-4 different drugs, collate all the possible side effects, identify the ones you're suffering and the ones that may pre-exist, and you'll find that there's almost a deliberate escalation of adverse effects as they add more medications to your arsenal.
There is good news, folks; I am drug-free for 60 days as of this writing, and I feel better than ever. I have identified a regimen of supplements which I take faithfully, and supplements make me feel good, not ashamed and not oppressed. Supplements are food!
That's perhaps disingenuous: I do indeed take drugs - Traditional Medicinals teas are unambiguously natural drugs, to regulate my blood pressure, treat anxiety and agitation, and relieve pain and assist digestion. I have no trouble taking natural drugs; it's the pharmaceuticals that are toxic and overall, cause harm.
Since going drug-free, my diarrhea was relieved and I've lost nearly 20 pounds. My goal is 60 more pounds away and I'm confident, with divine help, that I can succeed with this. Of course, weight loss is a permanent lifestyle commitment and not a fad diet or a month in the gym. But it's the single most healthful thing we can do for ourselves; the benefits are limitless.
[+] [-] kjkjadksj|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sandworm101|2 years ago|reply
I grew up in the mountains. When I went to basic training I was all set for serious hiking. But basic training wasn't in the mountains. I was shocked at house easy long marches were when there were no real hills.
[+] [-] chunkymilk|2 years ago|reply
Add in a walkable grocery store and I was a lot more active in CO than I was on the east coast.
[+] [-] seattle_spring|2 years ago|reply
... and please don't respond with counterpoint examples. Yes, I'm aware high elevation can be flat/boring and low elevation can be exciting and full of outdoor adventure.
[+] [-] SomewhatLikely|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mobilejdral|2 years ago|reply
At higher altitude you have higher levels of vitamin D, that in turn downregulates 21-Hydroxylase which means higher CRH is needed for the same levels of cortisol. The higher CRH means higher levels of Leptin, NPY, and Gastrin meaning less hunger and lower obesity rates.
This is presumably the same reasons why you gain weight all fall for winter/spring babies and lose it in the spring/summer. Just so happens at high altitudes you get more sun, more vitamin D.
[+] [-] inamberclad|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grecy|2 years ago|reply
I certainly have not been interested in eating whenever I've been above 5000m
[+] [-] silisili|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robertlagrant|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] padseeker|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] irrational|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flappyeagle|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iancmceachern|2 years ago|reply
https://www.axios.com/local/denver/2021/09/20/colorados-obes...
[+] [-] atticora|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SOLAR_FIELDS|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] irrational|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] npoc|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] genmud|2 years ago|reply
[1] - https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysio...
[+] [-] 1-6|2 years ago|reply