[jws]

I married into toaster moguls. When they sold out in '97, domestic toasters had been infeasible for years already. And this was for a company where all the knowledge, equipment, and facilities had beed paid for many decades before. (They invented the electric pop-up toaster for certain definitions of electric pop-up toaster.)

Toasters are refined brilliance, if done right. The concept of "done" is computed using an analog computer programmed by human experts. (Ok, its usually a bimetal strip but it is placed so that the cooling of the moist bread keeps it from going off and your lighter-darker input is biasing when it considers the toast done.)

Tear apart some toasters. There won't be anything in a modern cheap toaster that isn't absolutely required. Ask yourself why everything is the way it is.

Research the UL requirements. I have the corporate 2 pound copper ball that had to be dropped on things from prescribed heights and not cause malfunction. Make sure you can hit this targets with what you think you can build. Also check the CE, they might have more modern rules.

Be ready for litigation. Toasters catch fire. The toaster moguls were horrified whenever they saw someone's toaster under a cabinet. Decades after selling the business they were still being sued by mesothelioma suits for things like a repairman that got lung cancer and repaired home appliances, so he probably might have worked on one of their 1920's models with asbestos insulation. Don't let it stop you, but put the backup insurance into the expenses.

[zemvpferreira]

>I married into toaster moguls

Truly, hacker news is the most wonderfully diverse ecosystem.

[diydsp]

That is a sign of a well-capitalized, but not diverse milieu.

[addandsubtract]

Ironic to see, that after all the litigations were settled, OP was toast.

[arghwhat]

> Toasters are refined brilliance, if done right. The concept of "done" is computed using an analog computer programmed by human experts.

That hasn't been the case in ages. Modern cheap toasters use a dedicated toaster chip (... yes), which is a plain timer but with built-in retained heat compensation for when the toaster is used back-to-back. Fewer components equals cheaper toaster.

A very fancy toaster would have sensor for the bread (mimicking the Sunbeam) rather than a timer, but that's not common.

Either way, any toaster you buy today is a digital computer. :)

[tim333]

Gosh I didn't know there were toaster chips but it seems so. One here 8 pin package with pin 3 being the bagel pin. https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/PT8A2514A.pdf

[tensility]

Of course, there's also the June "toaster oven". ;-)

[carabiner]

I worked at a small aircraft company and one of the oldtimers told me lawsuits almost sank the company multiple times. As human transport, people WILL die in your product. Whether it's your fault or theirs, the lawsuits are a huge amount of money and no less important than the engineering quality. And so the company got lawyers and even a lawyer for president, not an engineer, and is still doing really well.

[masto]

They don't all have nothing that isn't required. My toaster runs Android, has a touch screen, WiFi and an app, and a camera for the AI to identify what you put in it and so you can watch a live stream of your toast or play back recordings from the cloud. It was a pre-order in 2015 that didn't ship for two years. Unfortunately they sold out to Weber a couple of years ago and the product has been discontinued, much to the disappointment of the few remaining loyal fans.

I hoped that was the kind of toaster OP wanted to make, but despite what I wrote above, this is not a disagreement with anything you said. I think people have mostly come to their senses (or have just run out of disposable income) these days and I suspect the market for $1500 smart toasters, if it ever existed, has dried up.

[crazygringo]

I really thought you were joking until I just looked up "smart toasters".

I can't find any that have a camera inside though, and I can't imagine how there would even be room for a field of view for one.

Unless you mean a toaster oven which is different? Turns out Breville makes one with a camera, much to my surprise.

[taulien]

I can't say if you are kidding or not.

I am a little bit worried, that you aren't.

[ThePowerOfFuet]

>My toaster runs Android, has a touch screen, WiFi and an app, and a camera for the AI to identify what you put in it and so you can watch a live stream of your toast or play back recordings from the cloud.

You—you're kidding, right? Right?

[dzhiurgis]

I've just played around with dalle and discord on toaster designs and tbh I wouldn't mind something that can store bread and automatically toast it by voice command (also remembers my preference via profile). And it shouldn't cost more than $150.

[riddley]

>They don't all have nothing that isn't required.

I'm not smart enough to parse that sentence, I think.

[madeofpalk]

Surely in 2015 we all knew that a wifi toaster running android was going to be a disaster?

[meeech]

The comment op clearly states "modern cheap toaster". The toaster you describe is not that.

[dtnewman]

> * When they sold out in '97, domestic toasters had been infeasible for years already. *

I’m not gonna claim to know anything about toasters or manufacturing, but I’d hypothesize that selling American made toasters to the masses is no longer feasible. Most people just want to buy a cheap toaster and don’t care where it is made. So if you were a large company selling to the masses, that business model doesn’t work. But that doesn’t mean you can’t make a much smaller business selling to toast enthusiasts today. I just think it’s largely about branding. Can you make a superior, long, lasting toaster that will appeal to toaster enthusiasts? And can you do it for a price that is in the realm of reasonable? I can imagine buying an overpriced toaster that will last me 30 years for $300 (I personally wouldn’t but if we’re into toast, maybe). But I wouldn’t spend $1000 on it. On the other hand, what do I know? There’s plenty of fancy coffee equipment that sells for more than that, although I’d guess that the coffee snob market is much larger.

[tonyedgecombe]

We have one manufacturer in the UK that still makes toasters here.

https://www.dualit.com/products/4-slice-newgen

Not their whole range though, the cheaper products come from China.

[coffeebeqn]

I know there is a niche - someone posted Balmuda earlier. I do wonder how far it scales. If you love bread there are better investments than a fancy toaster

[PaulHoule]

Your inlaws had the best information in '97 and wealth of knowledge about specific products but the right entrepreneur might see it differently these days. (e.g. your inlaws could sell out and get into another business because their brand still had value)

I went to Best Buy to buy a microwave oven last weekend and noticed that all the microwaves: (a) had a Proposition 65 label (see https://www.mychemicalfreehouse.net/2023/06/why-most-applian...) or (b) were made in China.

Had any microwave been different on front (a) or front (b) it would have been shortlisted in a second. Instead I had to compare a number of twisty little claims that all looked alike and face the strong temptation to buy the absolutely cheapest because it seems the $250 microwave could just as well burn out in two years.

As for toasters my recollection as a kid growing up was that toasters were made of metal and could toast bread quickly. When manufacturing went to China I remember my mother-in-law buying several plastic toasters from Wal-Mart in succession that burned up within weeks. Eventually Chinese toasters became reliable at the expense of running at half the speed of old toasters which they countered by adding more slots.

Today there are more concerns than ever about China's centrality in manufacturing so politics alone mean more consumers are like me and would be receptive to products which have a different origin (say Vietnam, Pakistan, Tunisa, etc.) particularly if this is coupled with a clear difference in quality, which I know is possible because of my history with toasters.

It is so for toasters but also for other domestic appliances. If you could communicate that you're really different there is a frustrated consumer who would listen.

[jen20]

There was an interesting segment on the Accidental Tech Podcast [1] recently about microwaves, I did not realise that there were effectively only a couple of actual microwave units on the market and everything else is brand wrapping around it.

I replaced my need for a toaster recently with a Breville Joule oven, and am quite impressed, I'd definitely buy one of their microwaves if I ever needed one.

[1]: https://atp.fm/560

[cavisne]

Starbucks coffee has a Prop 65 label. It's likely that any domestic toaster would also put one on. The reason for this is the onus is on the company to prove it doesn't have any risky chemicals. The USA is the land of the frivolous lawsuit so its just not worth it.

[silverlake]

Making a cheap toaster for the masses is a difficult business today. Making a luxury product for a smaller audience is still feasible. I have a $300 Balmuda toaster that is honestly very good (it’s a steam oven). Previously I had a Breville toaster oven that was big enough to handle 80% of my oven tasks, but didn’t toast bread all that well. Tovala and Joule make fancy toaster ovens.

[iancmceachern]

I think it's a steel ball. Either way, it's a terrifying object, that ball, when flying through the air.

[stuaxo]

Weird, I was just wondering 5 minutes ago if someone could do a modern take on the toaster that used the bimetallic strip - no necessarily the same mechanism but something analogue that gave a similar result.