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Edwinr95 | 2 years ago

I'm quite negatively surprised that a government service is moving from their own platform to AWS for such an important service.

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conception|2 years ago

AWS has a lot of pre-audited compliance built into their services. Being able to inherit their certification for services can save an organization a lot of time and effort.

lnxg33k1|2 years ago

Its not an organisation, its a blucking government, it handles citizen data, and its sending them to a company of foreign country, because it can’t hire some system administrators? A GOVERNMENT? What are they doing? Still looking for their product market fit and can’t afford the headcount? Is it a joke?

EDIT If they are looking for money id like to participate a bit in the seed round

sph|2 years ago

How would you feel if the US government ran on servers from a European company, which also works very hard to avoid paying taxes in US soil?

All those reasons to go AWS hold for a private company, not for a government service of a first world country and G7 member. AWS has a lot of compliant services, but it's not like they're doing rocket science one of the top 5 richest countries in the world cannot afford to develop or contract within its borders.

The simple reason is that the UK has been on a long trend of selling out to the highest bidder, whether they are US tax avoiding companies, chinese or managed by Russian oligarchs. We have chosen AWS for the same reason Post Office chose Fujitsu.

kingkongjaffa|2 years ago

> This is an AWS RDS PostgreSQL database and it lives in the PaaS’ AWS account. Our apps that run in the PaaS talk to this database. We are going to call this database our ‘source database’.

It already was. Read the article.

jazzyjackson|2 years ago

I don't know what it's like in UK but it may be the case that government has a hard time a{ttract,fford}ing talent to administer everything in house. Not that AWS is great for cost saving but if its between paying 50k/year for cloud services and not being able to find an engineer who will competently do the job for less than 50k, then the cloud is your only move really.

swozey|2 years ago

They require various clearances (digging into your life and past relationships to a miserable degree), don't allow someone to have ever smoked pot and pay half or less of what you can make in the pvt sector here (usa).

Everyone I know working FedRAMP jobs is prior military/g-level.

prmoustache|2 years ago

Once your past the emerging startup status, running on the cloud involve as much engineers and complexity as running on prem if you want to follow best practices.

The "let's be managed and only hire developers" is a huge myth. All large organizations involve tons of "cloud engineers" or "devops" depending on how they want to call them and are just sysadmins with a different name and a bigger paycheck.

Having actual datacenters doesn't add a ton of complexity and datacenters themselves are often managed by people who don't even have an engineer paycheck. The main difference between being on prem vs cloud is you have to plan (how many servers/storage/network equipment you have to buy and replace on the following year) and pay for stuff (like space, racks) more in advance + take into accounts delays in delivery. This is where cloud makes the job much faster for companies but given the slow pace at which gov stuff happen usually I don't think this is a problem for them.

solatic|2 years ago

> and not being able to find an engineer

Remember it's not just about being able to find one single engineer - then they become key-person risk. You need multiple engineers to be able to handle the loss of that engineer, either temporarily (vacation) or permanently (suddenly hit by a bus). Then you end up having a team of DBAs. Then you have functional rather than feature teams. Then you need multiple managers to align to get anything done, and have internal politics.

Being able to consume databases as a product has non-trivial value.

justsomehnguy|2 years ago

> who will competently do the job for less than 50k, then the cloud is your only move really

Well, there is the other way, but, as we know, never ever that would happen.

pmcp|2 years ago

As somebody who worked for the European Commission, and a european national government, I agree with your sentiment, but the harsh reality is that government divisions in generally work on a shoe string budget, when it comes to decisions like these. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a “best effort given the circumstances” move.

NomDePlum|2 years ago

Why?

I've worked on a number of UK government projects, including some with particularly sensitive security and data requirements.

Having some knowledge of their on-prem data centres and UK Cloud offering they have also used moving to AWS has so many operational, security and resilience benefits that aren't available elsewhere. It's not a free-lunch by any means and needs thought and governance certainly but the procurement simplification benefits alone make going to the public cloud a no brainer for a lot of government services.

It is worth knowing that even the on-prem data centres are usually operated by 3rd parties such as HP, BT and IBM. There was an initiative to have "Crown-managed" data-centers but it's not particularly scalable.

otteromkram|2 years ago

I'd argue that AWS is much better suited than self-hosting because it's such an important service.

Downtime becomes negligible and global reach vastly increases with comparably little cost.

ris|2 years ago

GOV.UK PaaS also runs on AWS (for as long as it remains to exist)

overstay8930|2 years ago

If you saw how non-tech companies run datacenters, well let's just say they're not exactly working with NATO like the big 3 cloud providers do when designing their DCs and backbone.

Honestly you should be frightened when you see someone NOT using a cloud provider, because it is hard work to properly run and secure a datacenter. Even Equinix fucks up HARD regularly and they are considered the gold standard (shout out to those I saw at 350 E Cermak over the weekend).

0xbadcafebee|2 years ago

That sentence was a little confusing. You're not happy that the government is hiring experts to run an important service?

dtnewman|2 years ago

Yes. RDS is a very reasonable choice if you are a tech company, let alone a govt org. The alternative isn’t “let’s host this ourselves” it is “let’s host this with Oracle at a much higher cost”.

15457345234|2 years ago

> is hiring experts

'moving to AWS' (or any cloud provider) is not 'hiring experts' it's just outsourcing the risk to an entity that you, in the event of a genuine crisis, have no leverage over beyond 'we're going to stop paying you (once we migrate away from you which will take ten years)'

okasaki|2 years ago

All UK businesses run on Oracle and Microsoft, so I'm not sure why you're surprised. They have us by the balls.

mobilemidget|2 years ago

"The PaaS team offered us the ability to migrate databases using AWS Database Migration Service (DMS)."

And I'm not surprised if, they got some kickback, discount etc in some way to promote AWS on their blog. Not claiming its so, but I would not be surprised at all. It reads as one big advertisement.

ivix|2 years ago

I'm surprised that you're surprised. Why on earth would government not be migrating to the cloud?

msla|2 years ago

It incentivizes public-private cooperation: If the government cracks down on Amazon, Amazon turns off the government's AWS accounts and deletes the data. The government finds that subpoenaing a wiped hard drive is utterly nugatory, and thereby learns humility.

_joel|2 years ago

There's an absolute ton of stuff on AWS. There used to be gCloud that allowed for smaller clouds to tender for government contracts bit there was a big pull to AWS, at least from my experience with it.

pixelesque|2 years ago

As other comments point out, their own platform was (at least in terms of DB) already running on AWS, just using a different account.

foofie|2 years ago

> As other comments point out, their own platform was (at least in terms of DB) already running on AWS, just using a different account.

That changes nothing. It just means this unjustifiable nonsense is going on for a while.

cpursley|2 years ago

And an American one, at that (we’re talking government services here, not some SaaS). Are there really no native UK cloud providers?

cameronh90|2 years ago

Not any remotely comparable. The small “cloud” providers we do have were just reselling vSphere last time I looked into it.