Main takeaway is don't do anything outside of work that will significantly impact work performance, but the way it is written is well balanced and supportive of employee growth.
I didn’t read it as “significantly” affect work performance at all, it seemed more like it anything that DOES affect work performance is a problem
EDIT: Also it seems like they don’t like you doing things similar to what they paid you to do, even if it’s not in competition at all… so sounds like after hours coding consulting even in a complete different industry would be frowned upon even if it didn’t affect your performance
I couldn't disagree more. As my employer you have no right to dictate what I do on my own time, nor should you even be aware or have opinions.
> But we want to make sure professional endeavors outside of 37signals don’t create conflicts of interest or affect your time, dedication, or performance at 37signals. So it’s a delicate balance.
How about you mind your fcking business (literally in this case), and if I start to slip at work you can talk to me, discipline me or fire me. What I do at 5:01 PM is no one's business but my own.
37S is just yet another corp who wants to control every aspect of your life. Water is wet, grass is green.
delete
"37signals pledges to be a company with a calm and friendly work environment. What follows applies to all active 37signals employees and contractors."
I like how they promote engineers based on "mastery". This is very different from Google, who treats promotion as a tool. That is, mastery often is not the only consideration. Sometimes it is not even a consideration. Of course, no one would say so officially, but more than one VP and director expressed this principle in different ways. And we can see the results: the promoted can be most important, most influential, most needed, or most trusted. Mastery of engineering is not necessarily in the equation.
Delivering value as an entry level software development position requires some soft skills, but it's probably mostly determined by skill/mastery over technical subjects.
As one advances, particularly at larger or more bureaucratic organizations, soft skills become more important. Being "most trusted" for instance, is of significant value. It suggests that one has built a reputation and delivered on his or her promises over a period of time and thus, can be trusted to lead a difficult or ambitious project. These things you mentioned, being important, influential, needed, or trusted, are all proxies for providing value over an extended period of time while maintaining good relations with peers. This is a good thing to select for when promoting up a hierarchy in a large human endeavor.
Of course we all know cases where people get promoted because of their social clique for whom this isn't true, but it's not crazy to not just focus on mastery of hard skills.
Google promotes for “impact” and “sufficient complexity” so I would assume it requires some level of mastery to get them both accomplished at the same time so in theory they should promote same people in the same circumstances. Ofc in practice I’m sure neither actually do
This is really normal for most small companies with good security posture, honestly. The company will pick one platform where endpoint management is functional, and require it. Code and secrets can't live on machines without endpoint management.
If the productivity/hiring/morale hit from requiring one platform becomes too great, then they'll get IT to figure out how to manage other kinds of endpoints. But in a small company, trying to manage disparate endpoints across multiple OSes is hard and expensive, but allowing corporate secrets on unmanaged endpoints is also a bad idea. So, this is the trade-off.
Sounds like it's meant as a living document (they reference github, and it's available here: https://github.com/basecamp/handbook/blob/master/README.md ), so doubtful. You could always clone the repo and "print" them to PDF though, and there's a bunch of results for a quick search of "markdown to PDF" if you want a batch/automatic tool. Actually, it'd be kinda cool to have a PDF version that gets automatically "compiled" every time the repo updates...
>We respect everyone’s right to participate in political expression and activism, but we avoid having political debates on our internal communication systems. 37signals as a company also does not weigh in on politics publicly, outside of topics directly related to our business. You should be at peace with both of these stances.
Follow-up question: do you think of it as a good thing or a bad thing? My guess is that either way, that's perfectly fine with them. They want employees who embrace this mentality, and do not want employees who would be upset by it.
Seriously, it's unfortunate that their handbook is so thoughtful and yet management has shown the same callous behavior as your average corporate overlords. Something something words and actions.
This seems perfectly sane and fair to me. Indeed, it seems like the only realistic option. Don't bring political debates to work. If they show up in the course of business, handle them carefully, but for the love of god do not borrow trouble by abetting them. For those looking for a place where people argue about politics, I'd politely refer them to literally everywhere else in the world right now.
I think the politics aspect should be one where there is a separation from work and strongly held and compelled to discuss. A company I have worked at had a slack / similar channel where tantrums about very personal self esteem / political view issues were not uncommon. It got old especially given the political leaning (in general) of said company was much in that individuals wheel of support.
There was some very visceral discussions in one of the CNCF groups late last year around the events in the middle east that impacted discussions, saw individuals publicly at odds, etc. Technical conferences, in a sense, may be different than work, but individuals participating in conferences should feel supported in engaging, discussing, and presenting the material relevant to the conference. Harassment/etc should be frowned upon and actively dealt with. Conferences, unless political/societal in nature, should also be political free zones.
This was very strange of them considering they actively participated in the 2019 Chicago municipal elections possibly breaking some campaign finance regulations subleasing space below market to a mayoral candidate (a candidate, who, incidentally, was very pro-startup)
"Political actors, including voters, activists, and leaders, are often ignorant of basic facts relevant to policy choices. Even experts have little understanding of the working of society and little ability to predict future outcomes. Only the most simple and uncontroversial political claims can be counted on. This is partly because political knowledge is very difficult to attain, and partly because individuals are not sufficiently motivated to attain it. As a result, the best advice for political actors is very often to simply stop trying to solve social problems, since interventions not based on precise understanding are likely to do more harm than good."
[+] [-] simple10|2 years ago|reply
Main takeaway is don't do anything outside of work that will significantly impact work performance, but the way it is written is well balanced and supportive of employee growth.
[+] [-] granshaw|2 years ago|reply
EDIT: Also it seems like they don’t like you doing things similar to what they paid you to do, even if it’s not in competition at all… so sounds like after hours coding consulting even in a complete different industry would be frowned upon even if it didn’t affect your performance
So all in all, still pretty strict
[+] [-] aantix|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josefresco|2 years ago|reply
> But we want to make sure professional endeavors outside of 37signals don’t create conflicts of interest or affect your time, dedication, or performance at 37signals. So it’s a delicate balance.
How about you mind your fcking business (literally in this case), and if I start to slip at work you can talk to me, discipline me or fire me. What I do at 5:01 PM is no one's business but my own.
37S is just yet another corp who wants to control every aspect of your life. Water is wet, grass is green.
[+] [-] steveBK123|2 years ago|reply
delete "37signals pledges to be a company with a calm and friendly work environment. What follows applies to all active 37signals employees and contractors."
[+] [-] all2|2 years ago|reply
---
Ah, I found it. https://github.com/basecamp/handbook/commit/620b0637452bda02...
[+] [-] lfuller|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hintymad|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arghnoname|2 years ago|reply
As one advances, particularly at larger or more bureaucratic organizations, soft skills become more important. Being "most trusted" for instance, is of significant value. It suggests that one has built a reputation and delivered on his or her promises over a period of time and thus, can be trusted to lead a difficult or ambitious project. These things you mentioned, being important, influential, needed, or trusted, are all proxies for providing value over an extended period of time while maintaining good relations with peers. This is a good thing to select for when promoting up a hierarchy in a large human endeavor.
Of course we all know cases where people get promoted because of their social clique for whom this isn't true, but it's not crazy to not just focus on mastery of hard skills.
[+] [-] dilyevsky|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rugina|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bri3d|2 years ago|reply
If the productivity/hiring/morale hit from requiring one platform becomes too great, then they'll get IT to figure out how to manage other kinds of endpoints. But in a small company, trying to manage disparate endpoints across multiple OSes is hard and expensive, but allowing corporate secrets on unmanaged endpoints is also a bad idea. So, this is the trade-off.
[+] [-] yashasolutions|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChrisArchitect|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Dunedan|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] timoteostewart|2 years ago|reply
https://github.com/basecamp/handbook/commits/master/
[+] [-] gjvc|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] braum|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maicro|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Amorymeltzer|2 years ago|reply
>We respect everyone’s right to participate in political expression and activism, but we avoid having political debates on our internal communication systems. 37signals as a company also does not weigh in on politics publicly, outside of topics directly related to our business. You should be at peace with both of these stances.
From April of 2021:
Changes at Basecamp - <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26944192> (883pts, 814 comments)
Behind the Controversy at Basecamp - <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26963975> (65pts, 47 comments)
What Really Happened at Basecamp - <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26963708>(193pts, 38 comments)
“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today” - <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998127> (1366pts, 2020 comments)
[+] [-] TehShrike|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnicholas|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spondylosaurus|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] karaterobot|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BiteCode_dev|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jmspring|2 years ago|reply
There was some very visceral discussions in one of the CNCF groups late last year around the events in the middle east that impacted discussions, saw individuals publicly at odds, etc. Technical conferences, in a sense, may be different than work, but individuals participating in conferences should feel supported in engaging, discussing, and presenting the material relevant to the conference. Harassment/etc should be frowned upon and actively dealt with. Conferences, unless political/societal in nature, should also be political free zones.
[+] [-] spamizbad|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tjpnz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] hiAndrewQuinn|2 years ago|reply
"Political actors, including voters, activists, and leaders, are often ignorant of basic facts relevant to policy choices. Even experts have little understanding of the working of society and little ability to predict future outcomes. Only the most simple and uncontroversial political claims can be counted on. This is partly because political knowledge is very difficult to attain, and partly because individuals are not sufficiently motivated to attain it. As a result, the best advice for political actors is very often to simply stop trying to solve social problems, since interventions not based on precise understanding are likely to do more harm than good."