[andjd]

Even if this is not a foolproof way to avoid flying on a 737 max, using it will provide a very _visible_ signal to the airlines. If they're losing ticket sales because people don't want to fly on a 737, the airlines will find a way to adapt. Even a marginal change of a few percentage points can shift a route from profitable to unprofitable.

Airbus is already outselling Boeing 2-1. If you're looking at a 5-10 year lead time anyways, they can expand production to eat further into Boeing's share if that's what the airlines demand.

[shmatt]

Planes get swapped out last minute pretty often, its pretty much the only way to avoid full airline meltdowns every time one flight is 60 minutes late to take off. Hell, there was no huge meltdown in the US once the 737 MAX was grounded, twice. They just swap them out, the system knows how to do it efficiently

An evil (but working) way to bypass this once 737s are flying again, would be to put a different plane with similar layout on every flight, then swap to the 737 on the itinerary the day before

Different plane, different seat, is pretty aggressively baked into TOS

[albert180]

You can book with Airbus-Only carriers though like JetBlue

[londons_explore]

The history of which plane flew which route is public knowledge though. So sites like kayak can easily say 'this flight was an airbus 90% of the time over the last year'

[ClumsyPilot]

“ put a different plane with similar layout on every flight, then swap to the 737 on the itinerary the day before”

Question to True Believers in Free market, where is the line between free market and fraud?

[belter]

"Alaska Airlines Ad - SNL" - https://youtu.be/IZf0bNDWH4s

[gfiorav]

> Airbus is already outselling Boeing 2-1.

What's your source? I looked up the quarterly earnings report, and Boeing reports 528 planes delivered in 2023 vs 488 from Airbus.

Just curious to know if you're talking dollar amount or what?

[kgermino]

I don’t know the source or veracity but that’s deliveries vs new orders.

Planes being delivered this quarter were probably ordered before COVID hit in my understanding so any order differences would take a long time to show up in the delivery numbers

[belter]

"Airbus Vs Boeing: Who Won 2023?" - https://simpleflying.com/airbus-vs-boeing-who-won-2023/

"Airbus led in terms of aircraft orders, with Reuters reporting earlier this month that the manufacturer was on track to hit an all-time year-end order record of over 1,800. Boeing's order numbers were a little further behind, with only about 1,200 net orders logged.

When it comes to aircraft delivery targets, Airbus again pulled ahead. According to the latest analysis from Reuters, the Toulouse-based manufacturer is set to come out on top, with over 720 jets projected to be delivered to customers by the end of the year. Boeing also trails in this category, with delivery targets only sitting around 500."

[stevehawk]

Orders and deliveries are two different thing. Orders taken today are for years in the future, and deliveries made today were taken as orders years ago. This is true from Cessna up to Boeing.

[Zigurd]

FT article including charts and numbers: https://www.ft.com/content/c08642f5-3aa3-447b-9028-c1c84b8e1...

[SoftTalker]

Airbus is backordered for years. Boeing is the only company that's actually got the capacity to take new orders for larger airliners.

[ugh123]

>the airlines will find a way to adapt

The industry's go-to method here will probably be lawyers and take-down notices to Kayak, before they adapt.

[richwater]

> they can expand production

This is MUCH, (and I must reiterate) MUCH harder than it sounds.

[lawlessone]

yeah i don't want them to do this and become as bad as Boeing in the process.

[JumpCrisscross]

> using it will provide a very _visible_ signal to the airlines. If they're losing ticket sales

They’re not. And neither is Boeing. If someone using Kayak isn’t willing to contact their elected, they’re irrelevant. (Complaints might register if you’re a frequent flier who books through the airline and gives written feedback. But I haven’t seen evidence of that yet.)

[wand3r]

> They're not

Boeings stock price is down 18% this month. Sure it's not because of Kayak, this is simply another data point that consumers are wary of Boeing. Boeing is massively fucking up and even though procurement cycles are extremely long, it definitely will have an impact. They are a plane and rocket company that can't build planes or rockets

[csours]

I bet a few people at Boeing got heartburn about this option being added.

[jjav]

This Kayak filter is not new, it's been there for a few years (maybe they added more models, not sure, but you've been able to filter out the MAX planes since the crashes).

[konschubert]

I sure hope a new competitor pops up. Monopolies are bad.

[kylehotchkiss]

There’s COMAC in China, not sure if that’s the competition you’re seeking

[Zigurd]

Popping up takes about two decades in commercial aircraft.

[HumblyTossed]

> If they're losing ticket sales because people don't want to fly on a 737, the airlines will find a way to adapt.

Yep, by suing the shit out of Kayak and anyone else doing this.

[aurareturn]

That's not going to do anything but create even more PR nightmare. If airlines sue Kayak, they'd generate a media storm which will further compel people to do it.

It's not hard to see what plane your flight is using. Super easy. Every booking site shows it.

[AndrewKemendo]

I’m starting to treat general aviation as though it was 50 years ago: Very unsafe and expensive

My expectation is that its going to take a serious accident to get anything to change.

I’m unaware of a highly utilized yet significantly broken system (Tacoma Narrows anyone?) that was able to improve iteratively without catastrophic failure driving improvement (Space Shuttle)

Most human systems don’t seem to have the ability to build fourth order forecasting into system design across all individual and integrated components

The idea of a “factor of safety” seems to be just completely missing in most engineering systems because tolerances mean waste and shareholders won’t allow waste that doesn’t go into their pockets

[amarshall]

Very unsafe? In the past 14 years there have been 72 fatalities involving US Air Carriers, out of around 250 million flight hours flown[1]. That’s fewer fatalities in 14 years than there are US motor vehicle fatalities in a single day (on average).

[1]: https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/StatisticalReviews/Pages/CivilAv...

[ejb999]

>>I’m starting to treat general aviation as though it was 50 years ago: Very unsafe and expensive

50 years ago civilian aircraft deaths were, on average, 400% higher per year than now. You might want to rethink your comparison; it has never been safer to fly commercial airlines.

IIRC, less than 5 people have died in the USA in commercial airline crashes since 2010.

[cityofdelusion]

General aviation is and always has been unsafe, due to the prevalence of single engine aircraft and unskilled pilots.

Did you mean commercial aviation?

[plussed_reader]

Please qualify 'serious accident' in the wake of 2 crashes and a decompression event forcing landing.

[sokoloff]

> I’m starting to treat general aviation as though it was 50 years ago: Very unsafe and expensive

General aviation* is expensive and dramatically less safe than commercial aviation. I'm not sure what that has to do with Kayak's offering model-filtering in their UI (Kayak is selling commercial aviation tickets, which has nothing to do with general aviation).

* - Civil aviation, minus commercial air carrier minus aerial application, pipeline patrol, etc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_aviation

[patmorgan23]

Commercial aviation is incredibly save. Yes there are accidents, but there are accidents in every human system. Commercial aviation is the safest way to travel even with all the mistakes Boeing has been making lately.

You are far more likely to die in a car crash than in a plane.