[hutzlibu]

There were also some rallies in saxony and more are scheduled for next weekend. Way lower in numbers of course, but it is something. And it is a wake up call for people to come together, before it is too late.

"the people in the economically "left behind" regions are actually going to feel even more attacked by these rallies, most likely, since they already feel like their views are being ignored."

And most of those people radicalized during Covid (there is a big intersection of anti vaxx people with the AfD). They already live in their own universe - disconnected from any source that might challenge their worldview and they made up their mind already about everything. They are comfortable with a de facto Nazi Leader (Höcke) - and yes, they complain that they are getting ignored. But sorry, I would continue to ignore their views of a racist white germany. Apart from that, sure the big politics made many misstakes and did not care about those "left behind" regions at all. And yes, imposing top down, that a quite village suddenly has to host many war traumatized immigrants - was not the way to do it. But the big politics did - and just branded every concerns as racist.

That rightfully pissed people off. But being pissed off about the government is still no justification for becoming a Nazi in my opinion.

[vladvasiliu]

I don't live in Germany, but your points seem similar to what I see happen on this side of the Rhine. But what are those people to do?

Their only weapon is the ballot. I don't know how elections work over there, but over here, blank votes aren't counted. You can't vote "against" someone while at the same time not voting for someone else. Don't like Macron nor Le Pen (the runner-up in the last elections)? Tough. Your opinion doesn't count.

So maybe they don't actually want the AfD in power, but hope that the incumbents get the message that they will get their asses voted out if they don't at least feign to listen. And you know that being in power is a politician's topmost priority.

Calling them racists and whatnot will very probably not help "non-nazis'" case.

[lukan]

"Calling them racists and whatnot will very probably not help "non-nazis'" case."

Well, but they overwhelmingly are racists. I should know, I grew up and live here. And I debate with them. And I try to shield my half german kids from their racism as much as possible.

Of course, officially allmost no one is a racist. So there is a meme by now: "I am no racist, but .... " (followed by something clearly racists, germany needs to remain white, but of course white is also not said, but biological germans. Autochtone germans, etc. )

"Their only weapon is the ballot. I don't know how elections work over there, but over here, blank votes aren't counted."

Over here neither. And I also have a hard time finding a party I could really support. And I am also pissed of at the government. I still don't vote for people, who want a new german empire, as I see no improvement here, but rather the opposite. Oh and quite many there (but not all) also dream of joining forces with Putin as he also hates multiculture and diversity. I understand the frustration that made people go into that direction - that does not mean I have to open myself up, to embrace them.

[soco]

The above point is, for the moment those people don't get many alternative solutions to their problems. Okay not "solutions" as what AfD proposes is not a solution, but alternative views. And it will be an uphill battle because as you noticed the neonazis ride the conspiracies wave, and that's something very difficult to fight...

[nvm0n2]

> a de facto Nazi Leader (Höcke)

Well that sort of language won't help. The AfD are not Nazis. This claim makes everything worse and needs to be discarded.

The National Socialists campaigned very openly on Hitler's belief that democracy was a bad system that should be abolished. Nobody was surprised when he went ahead and did that, because that's exactly what he always said he would do. They also campaigned on a very left wing agenda, with lots of talk in their speeches about comrades and ending class divisions, and they ran regular shows of strength in the streets with mass rallies of their supporters.

The AfD in contrast:

- Disdain socialism

- Do not organize massive street rallies

- Campaign on pro-democratic positions, like wanting lots of Swiss-style referendums. They say they dislike the EU because it's got a democratic deficit and they talk sometimes about a UK style referendum on leaving it, for that reason

Their opponents:

- Are left wing

- Organize massive rallies of supporters on the streets

- Take anti-democratic positions, like wanting to ban their opponents

So it's very dangerous strategy to attack the AfD as Nazis because they can just turn this around. They will say to those who listen: who is the bigger threat to the constitution? The people who spend years engaging in peaceful political campaigning (AfD), or the ones who have already had a key policy invalidated as unconstitutional and now talk about making it illegal to vote against their other policies (Ampel)?

[lukan]

Well, there was an official court case about it, with the result that Höcke indeed may be called a faschist, due to many things he said, that were often literal Nazi quotes. And he was a history teacher, so he knows what he was referencing. (and yes, I oversimplify a bit by conflating nazis with faschists, but a) I see no fundamental difference b) it is pretty much common nowdays

And the AfD in its whole is not a Nazi Party, but some sections like thuringia, the base of Hoecke, are verified far right extremists, according to the Verfassungsschutz.

And Hoecke becomes increasingly powerful within the party, many sources say he is already the de facto leader.

And I frequently read their news sites and forums. But I never read of criticism of Hoecke there - so this means to me, the rest of the AfD may not be propper faschists (yet) - but they accept that one of their main leaders is one. That tells me enough.

"The AfD in contrast:

- Disdain socialism

- Do not organize massive street rallies"

The original Nazis also did not do socialism, but rather elimenated their socialist wing soon after taking power. And the AfD surely would love to organize bigger rallies, than they already do. They just cannot, as in reality they do not have the majority behind them, unlike they like to think.

"or the ones who have already had a key policy invalidated as unconstitutional"

And are you talking about the covid money transfers? There was a court case and it was ruled not allright. But nothing of the sort that the Ampel is opposed to the constitution. There was also a constitutional ruling that the government is not doing enough for climate change. Constitutional rulings against the government happen all the time and it is simply the job of the Verfafssungsgericht to make sure that the government stays in line. A system that is somewhat working.

Hoecke on the other hand marched together with the NPD .. and the quotes he uses, well, I assume you understand german, so maybe read for yourself?

https://www.volksverpetzer.de/hintergrund/25-hoecke-zitate/

It is verified by now that he admires the Nazis and dreams of a new German Empire. That is very much unconstitutional, opposed to a wrong accounting trick.