I have the DIY FW13 Intel 11th Gen with Fedora. I've had an overall positive experience and have enjoyed tinkering with it.
My only negative with it has been the issue specific to 11th gens where the CMOS drains and eventually dies if the laptop is left unplugged for days-to-weeks at a time.
On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company was upfront, provided support, a replacement battery, and even published a how-to on modifying the mainboard after the fact. With a start-up I was expecting some bugs. This one was irritating but not a deal breaker. I think how they handled the problem and how they've proven their commitment to upgradeability through the 12th, 13th, and Ryzen boards speaks well of the company.
While I am extremely keen on the AMD versions that have rolled out recently, I can't justify the purchase when my current FW13 still works well enough.
The FW16 probably isn't for me but I hope it's successful. I really want to see the docking station that can double as an eGPU using the FW16 discrete GPU module. There was a prototype mentioned in passing about a year ago but it's been radio silence since then. I hope the success of Framework laptops and the growing market for gaming handhelds like the Steam Deck makes the modular eGPU concept a little more reasonable. It's still incredibly niche but one can dream.
I have mixed feelings. I bought mine hoping Framework would improve the SW (especially firmware and drivers) over time but that hasn't been the case.
My 12th gen has issues with abysmal battery life while sleeping (not just the regular Intel 12th gen sleep complaints, but batt life varies greatly depending on which expansion cards you have on the laptop while sleeping eg USB-A vs -C). Framework has been beta testing a FW update to partially improve this since 2022 and last I checked the beta still had side effects like bricking the left USB-C ports under certain conditions.
Even though Fedora is (afaict?) the best supposed Linux distro, there's still known issues that have persisted for years like the brightness keys not working (there's technically a workaround but it breaks a different feature that I would like to use)
If the laptop as it is today meets your needs, go for it... but one shouldn't buy it assuming that known issues will be fixed later on.
> On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company was upfront, provided support, a replacement battery, and even published a how-to on modifying the mainboard after the fact.
IMHO, handling it well would mean recalling and replacing the defective mainboards (so long as they’re in warranty). They must have a ton of brand equity / good will if customers are that willing to roll up their sleeves.
Your setup is identical to mine. We tested bringing them in for business use. On one, the graphics would randomly glitch. We replaced every part of the system except the screen and it would still glitch, so I replaced with Thinkpad. Just need a solid system.
After two years of sporadic use, our engineer with Fedora+Framework gave it up as it started burning him (2nd degree)!
Overall, I liked the experience and the mission, but was sad we've had the experience of glitch+burning.
> I really want to see the docking station that can double as an eGPU using the FW16 discrete GPU module
Yes! As another owner of the FW13, if they released some kind of external adapter for the FW16 GPU I'd definitely purchase the GPU and the adapter the day its open for sale.
The owner of DIY FW13 12 Gen here. The only problem I've faced was fingerprint scanner: it just fell off (I don't know why, I've not done anything crazy to the machine, worked almost stationary). I've just replaced the button with sticky plastic rectangle and that's it: button works, fingerprint - no. But this is a minor issue really: overall this is the best laptop I've had considering that I also can upgrade it more cheaply in the future, I suggest almost everyone to consider this brand when searching for new machine.
It looks like the next-gen Zen 5 AMD cpus will be another large leap anyways, so not needing to upgrade now should make you even happier down the line! :)
My 11th gen Intel Framework is my only PC and has been a great machine. I use it for dev, gaming, and general computing. Integrated Intel graphics goes surprisingly far if you run games at 720p - Skyrim, Dishonered, the Mass Effects, and more recently Battlebit all run well. I'd imagine the more recent Ryzens would be much better.
I want the 16 for more screen real-estate and better gaming; I've had family notice my laptop and make positive comments, so I may pass it on when I eventually upgrade.
On a related note, I saw someone else with a Framework laptop at a coffee shop the other day here in Alaska - super cool! First time I've seen another Framework user :)
Are there any plans to offer larger batteries and/or improve battery efficiency? From what I've read battery life is still an issue many seem to be having.
With the greatest respect it's 2024, a laptop should be capable of 8 hours at the very minimum for a mid range model but I'm seeing a lot of people getting sub 2 hours.
The 16 ticks all the boxes for me but I've held off for now as having the possibility of worse battery life than my old 2015 mac isn't as you can imagine making for a compelling upgrade.
I followed the prompt on the website and signed up for the newsletter, but I got so much marketing spam that was totally irrelevant to my one and only question that I had to unsubscribe.
Hi - Linux still has spotty fractional scaling support. It would be nice to have a display option that is either usable without fractional scaling (1920x1200) or one that works with 2x scaling (3840x2400).
No questions. But I just want to say congrats on getting another SKU out. I'm a very happy customer of an AMD FW13. The product has been pretty excellent and I absolutely love owning a notebook that I feel like I really "own".
How's out-of-the-box support for multi-monitor setups with Ubuntu? How about supporting higher refresh rate external monitors?
How does the trackpad feel compared to what people are used to with Apple devices on MacOS, is it at all comparable? I remember that being my least favorite part of using Linux laptops like what System 76 would put out.
How's the device build? Plasticky? Flexing? Once again, I dreaded that about the System76 machines, which IIRC are just rebranded Clevos/Compals.
What are your thoughts on the large amount of keyboard flex in the 16" model as reported by LTT and specifically do you have any official recommendations for fixing it maybe something a little more robust than sticking a few thermal pads under the deck?
Do you think that you will move from batches to continuous production the next few years (I understand this is difficult logistics)?
If Frameworks were available with 3 day shipping, then I would be able to recommend them to people more successfully.
Also out of interest, do you mind sharing your stance (and estimates for current and future demand) for touchscreens? Presumably you're estimating low demand for this at moment since it's not a priority. Would be great to see stats on this (since at the moment it's mostly just informal discussion / passing comments in the community/forums)
Thanks in advance. Appreciate everything you've all done.
Are you collaborating with others or assisting others in similar projects in other fields? I've been thinking how rapidly india is industrializing and the middle class is getting rich and considering the difference in my electricity bills in winters and summers ($7, 55 kwh vs $80, 640kwh ), I was hoping there were air conditioners which were more open and user accessible. The goal here might not be preventing wastage of ACs but of having only one AC that could power multiple rooms non concurrently thus minimizing energy waste.
Extremely happy as well. I did put 64gb on it and use it all day for GIS and design on Ubuntu, plugged to a Dell dock and two 4k monitors for a triple head set up
I wish they deliver good keyboard as well, like Thinkpads X201 or similar have. I am happy owner of modded X201 with updated screen, motherboard, and so on. It's not on a cheap side, but I'm happy to pay that price _only_ for the keyboard option. It's so cool. Folks back then knew what was important.
My AMD Framework 13 occasionally hangs and requires hard reset to come back to life. No errors are generated. As far as I can tell it instantly and unpredictably stops executing any instructions at all.
There hasn't been a driver or firmware update in three months.
The keyboard and trackpad are mediocre.
The fan vents are on the bottom of the computer where they're almost permanently blocked.
It's not a terrible computer, and it does have what was most important to me when I was buying (a matte 3:2 screen). But I can't recommend it to anybody.
One more person chiming in to say that I'm really happy with my 13" AMD Framework laptop.
It wakes from sleep and reconnects wifi before I'm done opening the lid, I can charge it from either side, the screen is beautiful, it's nice and lightweight, the performance and battery life are good enough that I don't think about it.
On the down side, the touchpad is a notable downgrade from the macbook I use for work, and the speakers are down-ish-firing and fairly weak. Also, twice in the ~1.5 months I've had it, it has completely frozen for about 30 seconds (even the mouse cursor didn't respond) before hitting a windows bluescreen and then rebooting. No idea what's causing that, but there is some suggestion on the forum that it's the AMD graphics drivers. However, I also have a GPD Win Mini with a similar APU and it's never once frozen like that on me.
I'm probably going to switch it to Ubuntu in the near future, so that might sidestep the freezing issue, although I expect it to eventually be sorted out either way.
I'll chime in and say that I love my FW13. It's a great machine. I got the DIY kit and had my 7yo put it together. It was straightforward with a little help from dad (even installing Ubuntu!). Now we fight over who gets to use it.
It's awesome to hear that. A big part of creating Framework was the urge to prevent a world where kids could no longer tinker with their parents' computers.
I love my FW13 too. I just wish it had more options for components. I can of course pick my own SSD and RAM configuration but that's true of every Lenovo laptop.
I wish I could get a 4K screen, an eInk screen, a touchscreen, a Dvorak keyboard, a OLED keyboard, an IMU/GPS/barometer expansion module, a pico projector expansion module, a software-defined-radio expansion module, a larger aperture webcam module, an IR webcam module, a depth camera webcam module, an Arduino expansion module, an IR emitter expansion module that controls TVs, etc etc etc.
But nobody seems interested in making this stuff. I guess the community that uses Framework laptops isn't really capable of that level of hardware engineering (me included) and the companies in China doing hardware haven't caught onto making stuff for Framework.
Just gonna add my voice to the chorus of folks singing the praises of Framework's laptops. I have used the 13 for the last few years, and I'm planning to upgrade to a 16 soon. As a long-time Linux user, it's been my favorite laptop by far. A great machine, and a zero-compromise experience from a hardware support PoV. In fact, when you consider Framework's standard-setting level of user serviceability, it makes other laptops seem like a pretty major compromise.
how long will it run on battery?
my FW13 12th gen (debian) lasts maybe 2 hours and even in suspend mode it drains way to fast (/sys/power/mem_sleep = deep)
I'm very excited about this; I'm not in a position right now where I particularly need a laptop, but my existing laptop is very much EOL at this point, to the point where some components have started failing, and depending on reviews I strongly suspect that when I need a new laptop the Framework 16 will be it.
The biggest feature I want is a good stylus/touchscreen for portable drawing, in my dream world that would be something I could swap in and out, possibly replacing the keyboard. I can imagine having the front keyboard mostly be a touchscreen display and just sticking a narrow module to one side of the screen with hotkeys...
Having a decent laptop that I can add a GPU to and take a GPU off of, add a digitizer and use as a drawing tablet or remove a touchscreen for trips where I don't need one, switch keyboards for specific projects -- quick swapping of components isn't just cool from a repair perspective, it's a major selling point to be able to have a single device that can serve multiple roles on demand. In most cases you probably don't want a GPU on a laptop; you want extra battery life. Until you do. And when you have some rendering workload or something intensive to do, you turn off the computer, plug in the GPU, and turn it back on.
I really hope that 3rd-party components take off. I'm trying to be responsible and wait until I have an actual need (and at the very least I want to wait and see reviews), but I'd be very tempted to buy one of these as soon as they launch if there was digitizer support, there aren't a lot of good, repairable, linux-compatible drawing tablets on the market.
[+] [-] jakamau|2 years ago|reply
My only negative with it has been the issue specific to 11th gens where the CMOS drains and eventually dies if the laptop is left unplugged for days-to-weeks at a time.
On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company was upfront, provided support, a replacement battery, and even published a how-to on modifying the mainboard after the fact. With a start-up I was expecting some bugs. This one was irritating but not a deal breaker. I think how they handled the problem and how they've proven their commitment to upgradeability through the 12th, 13th, and Ryzen boards speaks well of the company.
While I am extremely keen on the AMD versions that have rolled out recently, I can't justify the purchase when my current FW13 still works well enough.
The FW16 probably isn't for me but I hope it's successful. I really want to see the docking station that can double as an eGPU using the FW16 discrete GPU module. There was a prototype mentioned in passing about a year ago but it's been radio silence since then. I hope the success of Framework laptops and the growing market for gaming handhelds like the Steam Deck makes the modular eGPU concept a little more reasonable. It's still incredibly niche but one can dream.
[+] [-] Rebelgecko|2 years ago|reply
My 12th gen has issues with abysmal battery life while sleeping (not just the regular Intel 12th gen sleep complaints, but batt life varies greatly depending on which expansion cards you have on the laptop while sleeping eg USB-A vs -C). Framework has been beta testing a FW update to partially improve this since 2022 and last I checked the beta still had side effects like bricking the left USB-C ports under certain conditions.
Even though Fedora is (afaict?) the best supposed Linux distro, there's still known issues that have persisted for years like the brightness keys not working (there's technically a workaround but it breaks a different feature that I would like to use)
If the laptop as it is today meets your needs, go for it... but one shouldn't buy it assuming that known issues will be fixed later on.
[+] [-] ochoseis|2 years ago|reply
IMHO, handling it well would mean recalling and replacing the defective mainboards (so long as they’re in warranty). They must have a ton of brand equity / good will if customers are that willing to roll up their sleeves.
[+] [-] tomrod|2 years ago|reply
After two years of sporadic use, our engineer with Fedora+Framework gave it up as it started burning him (2nd degree)!
Overall, I liked the experience and the mission, but was sad we've had the experience of glitch+burning.
[+] [-] ncallaway|2 years ago|reply
Yes! As another owner of the FW13, if they released some kind of external adapter for the FW16 GPU I'd definitely purchase the GPU and the adapter the day its open for sale.
[+] [-] 0x49d1|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] schmorptron|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0x38B|2 years ago|reply
I want the 16 for more screen real-estate and better gaming; I've had family notice my laptop and make positive comments, so I may pass it on when I eventually upgrade.
On a related note, I saw someone else with a Framework laptop at a coffee shop the other day here in Alaska - super cool! First time I've seen another Framework user :)
[+] [-] nrp|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] esskay|2 years ago|reply
With the greatest respect it's 2024, a laptop should be capable of 8 hours at the very minimum for a mid range model but I'm seeing a lot of people getting sub 2 hours.
The 16 ticks all the boxes for me but I've held off for now as having the possibility of worse battery life than my old 2015 mac isn't as you can imagine making for a compelling upgrade.
[+] [-] depressedpanda|2 years ago|reply
I followed the prompt on the website and signed up for the newsletter, but I got so much marketing spam that was totally irrelevant to my one and only question that I had to unsubscribe.
[+] [-] alwayslikethis|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seusscat|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] natrys|2 years ago|reply
https://community.frame.work/t/request-review-of-korean-belg...
(am not even Japanese, just have bad habit of using thumb clusters a lot, and this is the only layout with small space bar)
[+] [-] 8f2ab37a-ed6c|2 years ago|reply
How does the trackpad feel compared to what people are used to with Apple devices on MacOS, is it at all comparable? I remember that being my least favorite part of using Linux laptops like what System 76 would put out.
How's the device build? Plasticky? Flexing? Once again, I dreaded that about the System76 machines, which IIRC are just rebranded Clevos/Compals.
[+] [-] lawn|2 years ago|reply
You got an AMD option now, this is the last hurdle.
(An ergonomic and programmable keyboard ia a dream. Maybe I could mod it myself.)
[+] [-] nekoeth0|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jckahn|2 years ago|reply
I’m holding out for an NVIDIA GPU, or at least some hardware to accelerate running local AI models. Do you have any expansion bay plans for that?
[+] [-] spuz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chris-orgmenta|2 years ago|reply
Do you think that you will move from batches to continuous production the next few years (I understand this is difficult logistics)? If Frameworks were available with 3 day shipping, then I would be able to recommend them to people more successfully.
Also out of interest, do you mind sharing your stance (and estimates for current and future demand) for touchscreens? Presumably you're estimating low demand for this at moment since it's not a priority. Would be great to see stats on this (since at the moment it's mostly just informal discussion / passing comments in the community/forums)
Thanks in advance. Appreciate everything you've all done.
[+] [-] sourcegrift|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mortallywounded|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GenerWork|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] metalforever|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] caskstrength|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pachico|2 years ago|reply
I even made the simulation of upgrading to 64gb of ram just after I bought it to prove myself that it was the right choice.
I cannot think of going back to buying something I know I'll most likely have to replace entirely after some time because it cannot be upgraded.
[+] [-] gregwtmtno|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cassepipe|2 years ago|reply
I had doubts about the 3:2 screen ratio but although it was unfamiliar at first I quickly realized that the extra vertical space for a 13' computer !
[+] [-] ornel|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RomanPushkin|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zbrozek|2 years ago|reply
There hasn't been a driver or firmware update in three months.
The keyboard and trackpad are mediocre.
The fan vents are on the bottom of the computer where they're almost permanently blocked.
It's not a terrible computer, and it does have what was most important to me when I was buying (a matte 3:2 screen). But I can't recommend it to anybody.
[+] [-] nfriedly|2 years ago|reply
It wakes from sleep and reconnects wifi before I'm done opening the lid, I can charge it from either side, the screen is beautiful, it's nice and lightweight, the performance and battery life are good enough that I don't think about it.
On the down side, the touchpad is a notable downgrade from the macbook I use for work, and the speakers are down-ish-firing and fairly weak. Also, twice in the ~1.5 months I've had it, it has completely frozen for about 30 seconds (even the mouse cursor didn't respond) before hitting a windows bluescreen and then rebooting. No idea what's causing that, but there is some suggestion on the forum that it's the AMD graphics drivers. However, I also have a GPD Win Mini with a similar APU and it's never once frozen like that on me.
I'm probably going to switch it to Ubuntu in the near future, so that might sidestep the freezing issue, although I expect it to eventually be sorted out either way.
But, again, overall I'm very happy with it.
[+] [-] thenobsta|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nrp|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nextos|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dheera|2 years ago|reply
I wish I could get a 4K screen, an eInk screen, a touchscreen, a Dvorak keyboard, a OLED keyboard, an IMU/GPS/barometer expansion module, a pico projector expansion module, a software-defined-radio expansion module, a larger aperture webcam module, an IR webcam module, a depth camera webcam module, an Arduino expansion module, an IR emitter expansion module that controls TVs, etc etc etc.
But nobody seems interested in making this stuff. I guess the community that uses Framework laptops isn't really capable of that level of hardware engineering (me included) and the companies in China doing hardware haven't caught onto making stuff for Framework.
[+] [-] cdata|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davewood|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bityard|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] schmorptron|2 years ago|reply
Regardless, it sounds pretty great from this review and the upgradable backslot is a massive achievement.
[+] [-] einpoklum|2 years ago|reply
Unless they offer something we can press with decent key travel - and I mean no less than 2.5 mm - I'm not buying.
(For those who don't know what I mean: https://www.pcworld.com/article/557179/full-travel-keyboard-... )
[+] [-] lousken|2 years ago|reply
and yes, I do say that even though I also have a keychron keyboard for my desktop
[+] [-] danShumway|2 years ago|reply
The biggest feature I want is a good stylus/touchscreen for portable drawing, in my dream world that would be something I could swap in and out, possibly replacing the keyboard. I can imagine having the front keyboard mostly be a touchscreen display and just sticking a narrow module to one side of the screen with hotkeys...
Having a decent laptop that I can add a GPU to and take a GPU off of, add a digitizer and use as a drawing tablet or remove a touchscreen for trips where I don't need one, switch keyboards for specific projects -- quick swapping of components isn't just cool from a repair perspective, it's a major selling point to be able to have a single device that can serve multiple roles on demand. In most cases you probably don't want a GPU on a laptop; you want extra battery life. Until you do. And when you have some rendering workload or something intensive to do, you turn off the computer, plug in the GPU, and turn it back on.
I really hope that 3rd-party components take off. I'm trying to be responsible and wait until I have an actual need (and at the very least I want to wait and see reviews), but I'd be very tempted to buy one of these as soon as they launch if there was digitizer support, there aren't a lot of good, repairable, linux-compatible drawing tablets on the market.
[+] [-] lwhsiao|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anonporridge|2 years ago|reply
Then again, I've failed to find any laptop that I like more than the X1 Carbon. It's damn near perfect.
[+] [-] tonoto|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Lio|2 years ago|reply
Nice to see sustainable, reparable and upgradable laptops come to market.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idoru
[+] [-] cempaka|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darthrupert|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blindfolded_go|2 years ago|reply