[Taganov]

Japan is insane on the paperwork front. The amount of stuff my wife has to deal with (because my Japanese is frankly terrible) for basic processes is mind numbing. Things like having to write out your address and contact info on five different forms for one appointment, visiting multiple offices to submit paperwork in for the same process, etc.. Moving apartments (heaven forbid it is to a different city government) involves weeks of straight up administrative work from one person in the household.

[2cynykyl]

Having just spent many months in Japan, I can confirm this...the paper work was so involved it could have been satire. To change our address on our residence cards we need to do 'move out' paperwork in the old ward and bring that to the new one. Each visit takes the better part of a day. Dozens and dozens of people are working intensely behind the counter to service just a few customers.

Eventually I came to this explanation: their culture is obsessed with perfection, from perfectly paved roads to perfectly preserved temples to perfectly presented food, etc...but this pursuit of perfection in the hands of bureaucrats leads to processes where everything is captured in detail, approved by multiple people, etc. Basically, in the eyes of a bureaucrat, 'perfection' is a rock-solid paper-trail rather than a frictionless experience for the citizens.

[pembrook]

I have a similar working theory.

This is a problem in many formal, detail-and-rule-obsessed cultures. Germany, like Japan, is lauded for its industrial engineering/manufacturing — but has the exact same hilarious obsession with government paperwork.

Meanwhile, more creative and permissive cultures — like say, Sweden (outsized influence on global fashion/culture/tech given its size), have far less paperwork.

[numpad0]

That explanation is spot on. Japanese culture is indeed obsessed on perfection to the point it almost touches my Japanese nerve that "forms" outside Japan are just Word documents with brackets and underscores, that's just too casual! That's not what a form is(well, it is...)

> ... than a frictionless experience for the citizens.

And this is spot on as well. Most Japanese barely understand the need for that; seeking better experience is, basically, seen as a sign of weakness. Way more attention and cost are spared for preventing what are seen as improper and illegitimate, than seeking paths of least resistances or goals at all. Everyone's process people always.

[skizm]

It sounds like they're all (government officials) just trying to keep their obsolete jobs alive by clinging to old methods of doing things under the guise of it being more reliable. Dozens of people don't need to service a few customers for perfection. The opposite. That's too many cooks in the kitchen. They need fewer people and fewer processes. The more convoluted the process, the higher likelihood of screw ups.

[joenot443]

That's a really well presented synopsis, it matches well to the anecdotes I've heard over the years.

How do you think this impacts the private sector? When delivering to a client, are similarly laborious levels of perfection expected?

[bemmu]

I live in Japan so deal with some of this. The attitude I've adopted is that the government officials are giving me free Japanese speech practice.

[DizzyDoo]

A week ago I just so happened to look up some of your older blog posts and Candy Japan articles that you had written, it was an enjoyable reread!

For anyone else, here are some links:

https://www.candyjapan.com/life-in-japan

https://www.candyjapan.com/behind-the-scenes

[FirmwareBurner]

>Japan is insane on the paperwork front.

Worse than Germany?

[juujian]

I know Germany always catches a lot of flack for bureaucracy, but changing my address in G was essentially pain free. The most adverse circumstances I have definitely encountered in the US of all places... Having rules is one thing. Having processes that are borderline broken, that's the real issue.

[lukan]

What legal battles do you have to fight, to move apartements?

I remember, I had to file one paper from the landlord and my ID and that was it. Took 5 minutes.

[FinnKuhn]

considering that an appointment for changing your registered address in Germany can be booked online and than you only have to go in person so they can put the new address on your ID card, show them your "Wohnungsgeberbestätigung" (letter from the landlord that you actually live there when you rent, not needed when you own your house) and sign once that you actually moved there I would say it sounds worse than in Germany.

[ciclotrone]

Having immigrated to both places: yes, much worse.

[duxup]

I hadn't even thought moving would take multiple pieces of paper ...

In the US it's just https://moversguide.usps.com/mgo/disclaimer?referral=UMOVE

And this isn't even "required".

[renegade-otter]

To be fair, the U.S. is very unique in that sense. No other society in the world is this uncommitted to one single place. Moving in the States is like getting lunch. Some extreme rent savers do nothing but move every year.

Even if the move process is frictionless, in most countries, it's just not a thing. You are "tied" to your family house or apartment, passed from generation to generation. Here, real estate is just a commodity.

[ghaff]

You may have some utilities and other things like that. Driver's license/registration if you're moving states. But very little really that you legally need to do.

[Leherenn]

How does it work with taxation? As far as I know, states and cities have various tax rates, so how do they know who is supposed to tax you?

It's often one of the main reasons why they ask you to register in other countries.

[Aachen]

This looks like a snail mail forwarding service? Surely that's not mandatory to move somewhere else? I've never used this in Europe (moved 5 times), just tell the places that need to send me physical mail my new address

[0dayz]

Would you say that this is due to overzealous bureaucracy or does it have a point?

Since I'm not sure how much paper work you can do to confirm thst you are indeed moving away or loving in.

Also wondering if this could be elevated somewhat by having the form be digitalized as it is in certain European countries.

[mariuolo]

I hope it's not everything by hand.