I am so glad to see this backlash. It's been a long time coming.
We've tried smartphones out for the past... oh, decade and change. They've been around longer, but were niche enough that they didn't dominate society, and even around the start of the iPhone era, "Crackberry" and such were common enough terms (with "Put all your devices in the center, whoever picks theirs up first buys the next round" being a fun game to play in certain company).
The results are solidly in: They're an utter disaster for most people, and for society at large. In no particular order, they ruin social interactions in public situations (think "talking to people in the grocery line" - though I've seen fewer people on their phones lately and can get some conversations going), they're utterly toxic for teenagers (especially teenage girls - studies vary on just how bad it is, but "awful" is a good start), and on through the ages.
I think it's important for the "techie sorts" to very actively reject that which smartphones (and most of consumer tech, really...) has become, and that's one reason I carry a flip phone instead of a defanged smartphone - it's visually different and stands out as a "... wait, you carry one of those?" conversation starter.
I've been trying very hard to get back to an offline-first life. And dumping the smartphone is a key step there.
My smartphone has replaced things that I used to carry. It is a tool. And as a bonus, I can pass time while waiting - doctors office, etc - which makes me more pleasant.
My smartphone functions as a watch, notetaking device, and communication device. I rarely get lost now that I almost always have a map. It is a music device, which is really helpful considering I walk and take busses for most of my transportation.
The sole reason I've not had to carry around a wordbook is because I have a translation app on my phone.
It is much easier to choose to not carry a purse or bag, which sometimes makes me safer.
Not to mention that I have internet on my phone, which is better than phone books ever were. Looking stuff up saves money and time if you use it correctly.
You shouldn't expect folks to talk to you at the grocery store: That wasn't exactly a universal thing everywhere. Seems like this is just you missing something that others don't - and not everyone needs this stuff to fill their social interaction quotas.
> The results are solidly in: They're an utter disaster for most people, and for society at large. In no particular order, they ruin social interactions in public situations (think "talking to people in the grocery line" - though I've seen fewer people on their phones lately and can get some conversations going),
I’m in the age group that is just old enough to remember adult life before everyone had smartphones.
Honestly, it’s getting weird to read people’s unrealistically idealistic descriptions of life before smartphones. I don’t recall people striking up conversations in grocery lines before smart phones, nor would I have been interested in it.
I think people also downplay how much smartphones just replaced rampant TV consumption for people who like to be entertained constantly. The same people who can’t entertain themselves without their smartphone and who consume toxic content would probably be sitting in front of TVs and watching Jerry Springer type shows instead of scrolling /r/relationships or watching Fox News talking heads instead of whatever weird political thing they’re consuming.
Smartphones changed many things, but the idyllic offline-first fantasies I keep reading about weren’t reality before smartphones either.
If you find yourself unable to moderate consumption, then ditching the smartphone is a good idea for you. However, I reject the idea that all techies need to reject technology and smartphones and embrace an extremist anti-position on the matter. Personally, I handle smartphone usage just fine as do most of the adults around me.
People should recognize when they have a problem, but projecting their own solution on to everyone else is about as appealing as the person who had a problem with drinking too much trying to insist that nobody else should drink any alcohol at all either.
I also use my smartphone for important things like maps, taking photos, keeping lists, and even paying for groceries if I forget my wallet. The way some people talk about smartphones as if they were just social media scrolling devices and nothing more is entirely foreign to how I use my phone.
I'm curmudgeonly enough that I'd tend to agree with you, however as someone who travels often I don't think I could ever give up my smartphone. I actually had a smartphone and some other similar devices well ahead of them being popular, and the reasons pretty much have not changed. Here are the things I don't have a reasonable alternative, because it's not just the capability, it's the capability backed by the Internet that is valuable:
1. Translation
2. Maps and Directions
3. Ticketing Services
4. Ride Hailing Services
5. Weather
6. Camera
7. Making calls from anywhere to anywhere
None of those are necessarily what people think of first when they hear "smartphone", but without them traveling would be a pretty difficult experience. I know firsthand, because I traveled prior to having these things. I had to deal with the expense policy at work trying to figure out how to get and handle cash in multiple countries so I could pay for a taxi and risk getting ripped off, or buy a train ticket. I had to carry around a phrase book and hope my pronunciation was close enough to get things done without offending anyone. I had to deal with paper maps, and get lost, and hope I made appointments on time. I had to roll around a wheeled pelican case with camera gear to get any decent photos, taking up precious space and making me stand out. And for the weather, well, I just looked outside and hoped I brought the right clothes.
I don't use social media, except Hacker News (if that counts). I don't really do any of the things you probably think of when you think of smartphones being problematic, but having this devices has made my life immeasurably better. So much so, that it's probably the most essential thing in my travel kit.
As is most things in life, the balance is the hardest thing to achieve.
I’d think of giving up my smartphone, but that’d mean I’d not be able to use WhatsApp to communicate with family and friends that are on it. Heck the parents group at my kids school is on WhatsApp. I’m not going to make everyone switch to “this other special” app. I gotta be where others are in this context.
Another is Maps - it is modern convenience that is hard to live without. Not only do I get turn-by-turn navigation, but I can quickly check whether the shop I want to go to is open or not. No, a Garmin device on a car doesn’t really solve that elegantly.
Thirdly, majority of my actions are on a web browser and it often happens when I’m mobile. Sure, I could remember things and then find them when I’m at my desk - yeah, I’m not going to remember that..
Fourth - my phone is my camera. I have pictures of my family memories, daily utility stuff.. even quickly taking a picture of a design I see somewhere as inspiration to stash it in my Notes. I can’t imagine giving up that convenience.
I’m however conscious of the bad effects of having the social drug on my hands. I don’t have Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Snapchat, TikTok, games or the like Apps on my phone. My battery usage report says 70% of the time was spent on web browser, and my mini iPhone lasts 1.5 days on a full charge.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, getting rid of my smartphone is very important.
There are very large benefits to having one, but I think that the drawbacks, of the sort you're talking about as well as the privacy/security issues with them, are larger than the benefits. They are a net negative. And I don't even use social media.
It wasn't always so. This equation became unfavorable just a handful of years ago.
And the fact that it's hard enough to give them up that I need a transition period gives even greater urgency to the need for me to give them up.
When TikTok first came out, I thought it was ridiculous that people would just keep scrolling short videos for hours. I got sick one day, check it out, and spent half a day scrolling. I immediately uninstalled it.
I like having a smartphone. And as I have no kids, I only go home a few hours before I am to sleep. I can't have my workstation in my car, but the phone suffices most days.
But your opinion got me thinking: what gadget would I replace my phone with?
Maybe a flip phone, a kindle, and one of those AI rabbit gadgets.
Wait till you see folks with fashion smartwatch being constantly immediately interrupted with all stupid notifications, its like advanced OCD factory for almost 0 added value. Then they turn it off, but usually this won't last, you can't brag about it so much and that 2s dopamine kick is missing.
Maybe some secret cabal of psychologists are actually behind it to raise their revenue.
The videos coming out of people walking around, driving, on the subway, or otherwise in public places with Vision Pros interacting with invisible computers I hope is a shocking enough image that we don’t go down that road but I guess it’s just going to become what people see as normal.
If nothing else it makes it obvious who is trying to plug themselves into the matrix so you can stay away.
I'd love to quit my smartphone and have looked at options like Lite Phone to replace it. The only issue is my smartphone is now my GPS, my payment method, my home lighting controller, my car/house key, and my health tracker. Plus, was a convenient way to keep tabs on work messages.
Half a decade ago I eliminated all my social media. Then about a year ago I started by removing work email and messaging from my phone.The next step will be having a designated spot for it to stay while I'm home.
I don't know if I will ever revert back to having a thick wallet and a pocket full of keys, but maybe someday I can evolve to look at the smartphone as a utilitarian device without the addictive qualities.
> The only issue is my smartphone is now my GPS, my payment method, my home lighting controller, my car/house key, and my health tracker.
If you use GPS only for navigation in a car, get a Garmin or something similar.
Payment: Is it that hard to use a CC like most people do...? I only recently used my phone for payments (lost card and was waiting for replacement), and did not find it any more convenient than using a card.
Lighting: Do you need to do this only at home or away from home? If the former, buy a Google Home (albeit that has its own issues...)
Car/house key: Sorry, no experience with this. I'd be terrified of using my phone that way.
Health tracker: No experience with this, so I don't know how you use it and what the alternatives are.
> Half a decade ago I eliminated all my social media. Then about a year ago I started by removing work email and messaging from my phone.The next step will be having a designated spot for it to stay while I'm home.
Good steps. I never allowed work stuff on my phone. And if I take it out at home, I'll leave it wherever I took it out. I have a PC so I don't need the phone (and yes, it's great that the PC is not mobile). I use my VoIP line as my main phone, so I have those all around the house. People know I may not answer my cell phone at home due to me not hearing it ring.
> thick wallet
How thick is thick? 1-2 credit cards, 1-2 debit cards. Not that thick.
> maybe someday I can evolve to look at the smartphone as a utilitarian device without the addictive qualities.
Good luck.
You won't though, "because sekhurity" - the trend points at everything using your phone as a second factor, and not even via the authenticator app, but vendor-specific push notifications, on a remotely attested phone. Banks and media companies are pushing hard for it.
You can get a lot of those things n an Apple Watch. I like to go out with just my Apple Watch sometimes. It covers your GPS, payment, and health tracking use cases. I’m not sure if the lighting controller and house key would be covered.
> The next step will be having a designated spot for it to stay while I'm home.
Sounds like a good compromise, like a basket where you put all your keys you need when leaving home.
I think the core issue with attention is ultimately the same as with infinite scroll, and the reward mechanism.
For me the unease can be felt as soon as I unlock phone, it’s like a bunch of candies and there is this implicit feeling that you need to do something, to interact with something.
Then there is this angst like when you get physical mail and you anticipate who it might be from back when we wrote more letters. Only now with smartphones it gets repeated endlessly throughout the day.
Can we really force ourselves to slow down ? To live a simpler life ? I think it’s not possible until profound changes in our society such as basic income.
The smartphone in a sense is symptomatic of the rat race. It’s the only way we found to make things better when better is « doing more things in less time ».
As others have pointed out alternatives, you can also just ask yourself whether the convenience of those things you listed in total are worth more than the drawbacks. If you constantly lose time by mindless scrolling, if you are unable to focus anymore, if you start suffering from FOMO all the time, if you social interactions and friendships suffer etc. the question is whether the comfort of those conveniences are worth the drawbacks. And some very obvious point about that: All of the things you mentioned, you didn't have 10 years ago. Was your life that bad (becaues of the lack of those things) at that time?
> The next step will be having a designated spot for it to stay while I'm home.
I put my phone charger in a drawer by drilling a hole in the back in order to run a power cord. I found that just having the phone on silent and out of sight helps a lot.
It also helps with clutter, instead of having a ton of random devices and cables, all of that mess is in a drawer that doesn't bother me.
I appreciate how this article acknowledges that once an addicting device is in our hands, we are to some degree at its mercy. So the best intervention is environmental: get rid of the device.
I employ a lightweight version: in my home is a "charging station" where it is easy to place a device and then forget about it. Some days I don't even see my phone until noon. If I drop my device at the charging station when I walk past it or when I get home, it's likely I won't pick it up for many hours. This practice has been a game changer for elongating my attention span and conducting myself with greater presence.
Notes:
- There's no downside to this strategy; I still have a 2-factor auth device, maps for travel, music for car rides, convenient contactless payment, etc.
- The charging station should be away from the main living areas and bedroom – mine is in a hallway's open cupboard near the main entrance.
- The "charging" part of the charging station is a misnomer, you don't have to charge anything, but the label serves as an enticement to drop off the device.
I do this, though using a different term for the station. Mine is called a "key catch" since I also plop my wallet, keys and the rest of my EDC on this shelf that is also fitted to charge my phone.
My trouble is that it's not necessarily the phone I'm addicted to, but screens in general. I have a tablet that floats around the house, and my laptop is never far away, so without the phone in hand, I'm reaching for one of those two preferred devices.
The justification is that I'm not playing games or endlessly scrolling social media. If I'm on my tablet, I'm reading news or a book. If I'm on my laptop, I'm working on a project or learning something.
I view my devices as tools, so any use of them is intended to inform me or further my understanding on something. Still, I arguably spend too much time on all of them collectively and I am not clear if this is healthy or not, but it does make me happier than my actual job or going out into the community which inevitably involves spending money I don't need to spend. Of the people who know me and understand this, nobody seems alarmed by my behavior.
I mentioned that because I deal with substance abuse in my life as a 12-year-sober recovering alcoholic. When we start applying the word "addiction" and it's barbed hooks to things like technology, I take notice. I'd argue that it depends on what you are doing with said device. Doom scrolling? Gambling? Eroding your self-worth by comparing yourself to people on Instagram? Watching vapid YouTubers read listicles from Reddit?
The activity matters...BUT, is the person performing the activity getting some joy from it without harming themselves or others?
It's a sticky subject, to me, but one worth discussing.
I have an e ink smartphone, specifically a Hisense A9. It has the same screen as a Kindle. It is wonderful for productive stuff like reading, messaging is passable, and videos are pretty much unusable. It's wonderful, I've read so many books now.
It has Android 11 as of today; with no information of upgradability. I would not ever recommend anyone to use such an outdated OS in today's world even on their secondary phone. It's just unsafe.
If it is to be used as a "reader" device then, well, whatever. But in that case why not just use a "reader device" then.
I considered the Hisense but talked myself out of it because of Android and lack of updates.
Part of me thinks I should just go for it, because I read a lot on my smartphone and miss Android’s Moon+ Reader - with Goldendict for Startdict/Lingvo dictionaries, it made a killer combo for reading foreign language texts with many new words.
Videos being unusable would be a fantastic QoL feature.
I found the following 3 measures quite helpful to make my smartphone less intrusive in my daily life:
1: I don't bring my smartphone into my bedroom. My bedroom is a personal and intimate space, no need for the outside world to barge in via smartphone.
2: I disable or silence every notification I get. The only time my phone draws my attention is if I am getting a phone call, my wife texts me, or if I get a Pagerduty.
3: I uninstalled or disabled all social media apps.
Number 2 had the biggest impact on my family and work life. When I spend time with my kids, my phone only rarely interrupts me.
My phone is like yours, it only rings for a certain few. I do not know what "Pagerduty" is, but I purchased numeric telephone paging service [to a "beeper"] and give this number to the few important people in my life that need to be able to get my attention.
Surprisingly, paging services still exist across metro-US, even in 2024 [I use pagerdirect, no affiliation].
#4: I rarely leave my house with a cell phone, and it is heavenly. Asking anybody to "leave their phone behind" invokes constant anxiety in most travel companions...
It is unfortunate that the phone hardware companies have an interest in you using their phone more, otherwise they'd make it easier to manage your phone usage better. The screentime app in iPhone for example is so easy to bypass as a user even when you were the one who limited certain apps usage. I want an app that strictly locks away my access to an app and also suppresses notifications. Is that so hard to build?
It also needs to be a default functionality of browsers. The ability to limit time on websites.
The strategy that has worked for me so far is to delete all any addicting app (entertainment, social media, etc) that has a web version. I still can access them with browser, but the experience is not the same, so after a while, I get bored, and close them.
I would rather not go back to a flip phone, so good on anyone that can and is happy with it. I do not miss T9 texting. What worked for me was I shifted my mind to stop thinking of my phone as a daily necessity and more as a multi-function tool. Screen Time helped to identify the apps I'm using the most. I started with deleting the time wasting apps - Reddit, twitter, tiktok, instagram - all gone. If it's really important, I'll go on a computer or use safari but otherwise I just don't care for anything happening on there anymore.
For awhile I would pick up my phone, realize there's nothing interesting on it and go do something else. I've read 6 books so far this year. I'm on pace to 5x my reading from last year. I'm watching movies or tv with complete attention, where I used to be confused as to what was going on cause I'd be on my phone.
Whatever helps you get rid of your unskillful habits, keep at it. The rest of the world is always going to be vying for your attention, it's yours to spend how you choose.
I just checked the Screen Time statistics, and my average daily screen time last week was 18 minutes, the week before that was 22 minutes. I've never been in danger of becoming addicted to smart phones, just like I've never been in danger of being addicted to alcohol or gambling: none of them really appeal to me that much. But there are plenty of things I know I am addicted to, and I'm pretty sure the way to treat that addiction is to address the underlying issue for which the addiction is a response or a coping mechanism. Not to buy something and then pat yourself on the back. I very strongly doubt that just buying a flip phone is going to fix it; sorry folks (seriously).
I couldn't live without SMS and navigation, so I kept my smartphone and just disabled my browser and removed all social media apps. Occasionally I have to re-enable my browser to scan a QR code (including for parking as the article mentions), which annoyingly reminds me how to circumvent this restriction, but it hasn't really been a problem so far. I already had Kindle on my phone, and I also installed the Wikipedia app and Dropbox so I can quickly look up facts, browse articles, or read a book or paper when I have nothing else to do. The main effect is that I spend most time on my phone reading stuff I actually want to read instead of aimlessly browsing the web.
Do people really want to quit their smartphone? I certainly don’t. It connects me to people, provides information, and lets me capture information when I want to. I do not feel overwhelmed by it. I do restrict notifications to specific apps and people. The rest, I check on a couple of times a day. Why would I want to quit?
I think a more accurate statement of the need is that people want their lives back, and the smartphone is a clear symbol of the ever-connected world, where not noticing a message for 15 minutes can turn into disaster, where you are expected to Always. Be. Available. That’s what people want out of, in my observations.
We talk about habituated phone users - people who sit there refreshing their social feed for 14 hours a day - and while these are troubling cases, I don’t think they represent the majority of people who say they want to give up their smartphone.
People don’t want to quit smartphones, they want to quit what’s in them and that can be hard. Sometimes you just have apps that are a time sink. You can obviously delete them and call it a day, but sometimes you want to keep it around for a small use case, but then want to limit your usage to a minimum, which can be hard because these apps are literally designed to make you spend as much time on them as possible.
I'm surprised more people are not talking about the main reason I keep a high end smartphone in my pocket : photo quality.
I got rid of social media apps a while ago, and except for Spotify I feel like I could manage without a smartphone; but none of them have a good enough photo quality for me (that and the icloud sync)?
I was never in the "heavy smartphone users" category, but one thing I found that nonetheless shrank my usage significantly was switching to the "Niagara" launcher app (Android). If you are somebody that doesn't want to keep getting "sucked" into your phone, I cannot recommend it highly enough.
Last year I got all into trying to, idk what to call it, "un-tech" my life. I started excitedly telling my wife I was going to get a one of these dumb phones and start using it. The next day a broken car on an incline rolled back into my car damaging it. I had to pull out my smartphone document the whole thing with pictures. I got a whole "what would you do with your dumb phone" and dropped the whole thing.
There is probably a middle ground like this article suggests that's more realistic. Just take the addictive stuff off, control notifications, add timers, add friction where you can etc. Just leaving my facebook account logged out basically killed my random scrolling habit.
I use my smartphone mostly like a computer for work; research or look up stuff I want to implement. I don’t have dead-scroll social media apps installed and I don’t call; people can send text via different chat apps because that’s async so no chance of distracting me. It’s always on dnd or sleep. Done this for almost a decade now; works well.
Some years after publishing Digital Vegan [0] I still get occasional
messages from people thanking me profoundly for helping them get free.
Maybe I got a few things right. AFAIK the review epub [1] has been on
the torrents for ages.
I feel like i would like a phone with the sim and wifi module ripped out. Perhaps just bluetooth so my files can get auto transfered when i get home. Phones are great note takers and recorders but the social media and communication aspects can be problematic.
I've been using the Cat S22 as my main device for the past month or so and have found it to be pretty much exactly what I was looking for.
It's a flip phone that runs android, so can still use whatsapp, signal, email, maps, use rideshare apps, scan qr codes, and play music, but is limited enough that I'm not scrolling on it during free interstitial moments. The screen is too small to really be useful for reading the internet or using something like instagram, but I'm not totally cut off from friends and family.
I've used other dumbphones in the past, notably the Punkt MP01 and the Light Phone II and the Cat feels like one I could use indefinitely and not have to have another device handy. The only exception I would note is that I recently got back from traveling to a foreign country and a city I'd never been and I think I would have rather had a smart phone there.
[+] [-] jjdeveloper|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Syonyk|2 years ago|reply
We've tried smartphones out for the past... oh, decade and change. They've been around longer, but were niche enough that they didn't dominate society, and even around the start of the iPhone era, "Crackberry" and such were common enough terms (with "Put all your devices in the center, whoever picks theirs up first buys the next round" being a fun game to play in certain company).
The results are solidly in: They're an utter disaster for most people, and for society at large. In no particular order, they ruin social interactions in public situations (think "talking to people in the grocery line" - though I've seen fewer people on their phones lately and can get some conversations going), they're utterly toxic for teenagers (especially teenage girls - studies vary on just how bad it is, but "awful" is a good start), and on through the ages.
I think it's important for the "techie sorts" to very actively reject that which smartphones (and most of consumer tech, really...) has become, and that's one reason I carry a flip phone instead of a defanged smartphone - it's visually different and stands out as a "... wait, you carry one of those?" conversation starter.
I've been trying very hard to get back to an offline-first life. And dumping the smartphone is a key step there.
[+] [-] Broken_Hippo|2 years ago|reply
My smartphone functions as a watch, notetaking device, and communication device. I rarely get lost now that I almost always have a map. It is a music device, which is really helpful considering I walk and take busses for most of my transportation.
The sole reason I've not had to carry around a wordbook is because I have a translation app on my phone.
It is much easier to choose to not carry a purse or bag, which sometimes makes me safer.
Not to mention that I have internet on my phone, which is better than phone books ever were. Looking stuff up saves money and time if you use it correctly.
You shouldn't expect folks to talk to you at the grocery store: That wasn't exactly a universal thing everywhere. Seems like this is just you missing something that others don't - and not everyone needs this stuff to fill their social interaction quotas.
[+] [-] Aurornis|2 years ago|reply
I’m in the age group that is just old enough to remember adult life before everyone had smartphones.
Honestly, it’s getting weird to read people’s unrealistically idealistic descriptions of life before smartphones. I don’t recall people striking up conversations in grocery lines before smart phones, nor would I have been interested in it.
I think people also downplay how much smartphones just replaced rampant TV consumption for people who like to be entertained constantly. The same people who can’t entertain themselves without their smartphone and who consume toxic content would probably be sitting in front of TVs and watching Jerry Springer type shows instead of scrolling /r/relationships or watching Fox News talking heads instead of whatever weird political thing they’re consuming.
Smartphones changed many things, but the idyllic offline-first fantasies I keep reading about weren’t reality before smartphones either.
If you find yourself unable to moderate consumption, then ditching the smartphone is a good idea for you. However, I reject the idea that all techies need to reject technology and smartphones and embrace an extremist anti-position on the matter. Personally, I handle smartphone usage just fine as do most of the adults around me.
People should recognize when they have a problem, but projecting their own solution on to everyone else is about as appealing as the person who had a problem with drinking too much trying to insist that nobody else should drink any alcohol at all either.
I also use my smartphone for important things like maps, taking photos, keeping lists, and even paying for groceries if I forget my wallet. The way some people talk about smartphones as if they were just social media scrolling devices and nothing more is entirely foreign to how I use my phone.
[+] [-] tristor|2 years ago|reply
1. Translation
2. Maps and Directions
3. Ticketing Services
4. Ride Hailing Services
5. Weather
6. Camera
7. Making calls from anywhere to anywhere
None of those are necessarily what people think of first when they hear "smartphone", but without them traveling would be a pretty difficult experience. I know firsthand, because I traveled prior to having these things. I had to deal with the expense policy at work trying to figure out how to get and handle cash in multiple countries so I could pay for a taxi and risk getting ripped off, or buy a train ticket. I had to carry around a phrase book and hope my pronunciation was close enough to get things done without offending anyone. I had to deal with paper maps, and get lost, and hope I made appointments on time. I had to roll around a wheeled pelican case with camera gear to get any decent photos, taking up precious space and making me stand out. And for the weather, well, I just looked outside and hoped I brought the right clothes.
I don't use social media, except Hacker News (if that counts). I don't really do any of the things you probably think of when you think of smartphones being problematic, but having this devices has made my life immeasurably better. So much so, that it's probably the most essential thing in my travel kit.
[+] [-] deely3|2 years ago|reply
I DONT WANT TO TALK to people in grocery line, especially when I don't have a phone. I perfectly ok to just stand quietly.
> they're utterly toxic for teenagers
sometimes, and still we have to be sure that its a phone and not society.
[+] [-] reacharavindh|2 years ago|reply
I’d think of giving up my smartphone, but that’d mean I’d not be able to use WhatsApp to communicate with family and friends that are on it. Heck the parents group at my kids school is on WhatsApp. I’m not going to make everyone switch to “this other special” app. I gotta be where others are in this context.
Another is Maps - it is modern convenience that is hard to live without. Not only do I get turn-by-turn navigation, but I can quickly check whether the shop I want to go to is open or not. No, a Garmin device on a car doesn’t really solve that elegantly.
Thirdly, majority of my actions are on a web browser and it often happens when I’m mobile. Sure, I could remember things and then find them when I’m at my desk - yeah, I’m not going to remember that..
Fourth - my phone is my camera. I have pictures of my family memories, daily utility stuff.. even quickly taking a picture of a design I see somewhere as inspiration to stash it in my Notes. I can’t imagine giving up that convenience.
I’m however conscious of the bad effects of having the social drug on my hands. I don’t have Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Snapchat, TikTok, games or the like Apps on my phone. My battery usage report says 70% of the time was spent on web browser, and my mini iPhone lasts 1.5 days on a full charge.
[+] [-] JohnFen|2 years ago|reply
There are very large benefits to having one, but I think that the drawbacks, of the sort you're talking about as well as the privacy/security issues with them, are larger than the benefits. They are a net negative. And I don't even use social media.
It wasn't always so. This equation became unfavorable just a handful of years ago.
And the fact that it's hard enough to give them up that I need a transition period gives even greater urgency to the need for me to give them up.
[+] [-] ironmanszombie|2 years ago|reply
I like having a smartphone. And as I have no kids, I only go home a few hours before I am to sleep. I can't have my workstation in my car, but the phone suffices most days.
But your opinion got me thinking: what gadget would I replace my phone with? Maybe a flip phone, a kindle, and one of those AI rabbit gadgets.
[+] [-] wsatb|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saiya-jin|2 years ago|reply
Maybe some secret cabal of psychologists are actually behind it to raise their revenue.
[+] [-] j4yav|2 years ago|reply
If nothing else it makes it obvious who is trying to plug themselves into the matrix so you can stay away.
[+] [-] allthecybers|2 years ago|reply
Half a decade ago I eliminated all my social media. Then about a year ago I started by removing work email and messaging from my phone.The next step will be having a designated spot for it to stay while I'm home.
I don't know if I will ever revert back to having a thick wallet and a pocket full of keys, but maybe someday I can evolve to look at the smartphone as a utilitarian device without the addictive qualities.
Now to get back to scrolling on Hacker News.
[+] [-] BeetleB|2 years ago|reply
If you use GPS only for navigation in a car, get a Garmin or something similar.
Payment: Is it that hard to use a CC like most people do...? I only recently used my phone for payments (lost card and was waiting for replacement), and did not find it any more convenient than using a card.
Lighting: Do you need to do this only at home or away from home? If the former, buy a Google Home (albeit that has its own issues...)
Car/house key: Sorry, no experience with this. I'd be terrified of using my phone that way.
Health tracker: No experience with this, so I don't know how you use it and what the alternatives are.
> Half a decade ago I eliminated all my social media. Then about a year ago I started by removing work email and messaging from my phone.The next step will be having a designated spot for it to stay while I'm home.
Good steps. I never allowed work stuff on my phone. And if I take it out at home, I'll leave it wherever I took it out. I have a PC so I don't need the phone (and yes, it's great that the PC is not mobile). I use my VoIP line as my main phone, so I have those all around the house. People know I may not answer my cell phone at home due to me not hearing it ring.
> thick wallet
How thick is thick? 1-2 credit cards, 1-2 debit cards. Not that thick.
[+] [-] TeMPOraL|2 years ago|reply
Good luck.
You won't though, "because sekhurity" - the trend points at everything using your phone as a second factor, and not even via the authenticator app, but vendor-specific push notifications, on a remotely attested phone. Banks and media companies are pushing hard for it.
[+] [-] MarkSweep|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AltruisticGapHN|2 years ago|reply
Sounds like a good compromise, like a basket where you put all your keys you need when leaving home.
I think the core issue with attention is ultimately the same as with infinite scroll, and the reward mechanism.
For me the unease can be felt as soon as I unlock phone, it’s like a bunch of candies and there is this implicit feeling that you need to do something, to interact with something.
Then there is this angst like when you get physical mail and you anticipate who it might be from back when we wrote more letters. Only now with smartphones it gets repeated endlessly throughout the day.
Can we really force ourselves to slow down ? To live a simpler life ? I think it’s not possible until profound changes in our society such as basic income.
The smartphone in a sense is symptomatic of the rat race. It’s the only way we found to make things better when better is « doing more things in less time ».
[+] [-] littlecranky67|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jfim|2 years ago|reply
I put my phone charger in a drawer by drilling a hole in the back in order to run a power cord. I found that just having the phone on silent and out of sight helps a lot.
It also helps with clutter, instead of having a ton of random devices and cables, all of that mess is in a drawer that doesn't bother me.
[+] [-] yaomtc|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arthurofbabylon|2 years ago|reply
I employ a lightweight version: in my home is a "charging station" where it is easy to place a device and then forget about it. Some days I don't even see my phone until noon. If I drop my device at the charging station when I walk past it or when I get home, it's likely I won't pick it up for many hours. This practice has been a game changer for elongating my attention span and conducting myself with greater presence.
Notes:
- There's no downside to this strategy; I still have a 2-factor auth device, maps for travel, music for car rides, convenient contactless payment, etc.
- The charging station should be away from the main living areas and bedroom – mine is in a hallway's open cupboard near the main entrance.
- The "charging" part of the charging station is a misnomer, you don't have to charge anything, but the label serves as an enticement to drop off the device.
[+] [-] 0xEF|2 years ago|reply
My trouble is that it's not necessarily the phone I'm addicted to, but screens in general. I have a tablet that floats around the house, and my laptop is never far away, so without the phone in hand, I'm reaching for one of those two preferred devices.
The justification is that I'm not playing games or endlessly scrolling social media. If I'm on my tablet, I'm reading news or a book. If I'm on my laptop, I'm working on a project or learning something.
I view my devices as tools, so any use of them is intended to inform me or further my understanding on something. Still, I arguably spend too much time on all of them collectively and I am not clear if this is healthy or not, but it does make me happier than my actual job or going out into the community which inevitably involves spending money I don't need to spend. Of the people who know me and understand this, nobody seems alarmed by my behavior.
I mentioned that because I deal with substance abuse in my life as a 12-year-sober recovering alcoholic. When we start applying the word "addiction" and it's barbed hooks to things like technology, I take notice. I'd argue that it depends on what you are doing with said device. Doom scrolling? Gambling? Eroding your self-worth by comparing yourself to people on Instagram? Watching vapid YouTubers read listicles from Reddit?
The activity matters...BUT, is the person performing the activity getting some joy from it without harming themselves or others?
It's a sticky subject, to me, but one worth discussing.
[+] [-] seam_carver|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] crossroadsguy|2 years ago|reply
If it is to be used as a "reader" device then, well, whatever. But in that case why not just use a "reader device" then.
[+] [-] 0x38B|2 years ago|reply
Part of me thinks I should just go for it, because I read a lot on my smartphone and miss Android’s Moon+ Reader - with Goldendict for Startdict/Lingvo dictionaries, it made a killer combo for reading foreign language texts with many new words.
Videos being unusable would be a fantastic QoL feature.
[+] [-] mzs|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pj_mukh|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] debok|2 years ago|reply
1: I don't bring my smartphone into my bedroom. My bedroom is a personal and intimate space, no need for the outside world to barge in via smartphone.
2: I disable or silence every notification I get. The only time my phone draws my attention is if I am getting a phone call, my wife texts me, or if I get a Pagerduty.
3: I uninstalled or disabled all social media apps.
Number 2 had the biggest impact on my family and work life. When I spend time with my kids, my phone only rarely interrupts me.
[+] [-] ProllyInfamous|2 years ago|reply
My phone is like yours, it only rings for a certain few. I do not know what "Pagerduty" is, but I purchased numeric telephone paging service [to a "beeper"] and give this number to the few important people in my life that need to be able to get my attention.
Surprisingly, paging services still exist across metro-US, even in 2024 [I use pagerdirect, no affiliation].
#4: I rarely leave my house with a cell phone, and it is heavenly. Asking anybody to "leave their phone behind" invokes constant anxiety in most travel companions...
[+] [-] darth_avocado|2 years ago|reply
It also needs to be a default functionality of browsers. The ability to limit time on websites.
[+] [-] wintorez|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] magicmicah85|2 years ago|reply
For awhile I would pick up my phone, realize there's nothing interesting on it and go do something else. I've read 6 books so far this year. I'm on pace to 5x my reading from last year. I'm watching movies or tv with complete attention, where I used to be confused as to what was going on cause I'd be on my phone.
Whatever helps you get rid of your unskillful habits, keep at it. The rest of the world is always going to be vying for your attention, it's yours to spend how you choose.
[+] [-] karaterobot|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] senderista|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tagbert|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] madaxe_again|2 years ago|reply
We talk about habituated phone users - people who sit there refreshing their social feed for 14 hours a day - and while these are troubling cases, I don’t think they represent the majority of people who say they want to give up their smartphone.
[+] [-] darth_avocado|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] jlengrand|2 years ago|reply
I got rid of social media apps a while ago, and except for Spotify I feel like I could manage without a smartphone; but none of them have a good enough photo quality for me (that and the icloud sync)?
Am I missing something?
[+] [-] chias|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tayo42|2 years ago|reply
There is probably a middle ground like this article suggests that's more realistic. Just take the addictive stuff off, control notifications, add timers, add friction where you can etc. Just leaving my facebook account logged out basically killed my random scrolling habit.
[+] [-] anonzzzies|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nonrandomstring|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] desmond373|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hammock|2 years ago|reply
That’s not a phone then. It’s a computer (?)
[+] [-] solresol|2 years ago|reply
It has wifi though, but you can't watch videos or scroll fast because of the e-ink screen.
[+] [-] asystole|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giancarlostoro|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 2OEH8eoCRo0|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kpmcc|2 years ago|reply
It's a flip phone that runs android, so can still use whatsapp, signal, email, maps, use rideshare apps, scan qr codes, and play music, but is limited enough that I'm not scrolling on it during free interstitial moments. The screen is too small to really be useful for reading the internet or using something like instagram, but I'm not totally cut off from friends and family.
I've used other dumbphones in the past, notably the Punkt MP01 and the Light Phone II and the Cat feels like one I could use indefinitely and not have to have another device handy. The only exception I would note is that I recently got back from traveling to a foreign country and a city I'd never been and I think I would have rather had a smart phone there.