From talking to people working on this project, there's always been some sort of interesting paradox in terms of dealing with the potential of bad PR due to accidents and fatalities linked to self driving versus one of Apple’s most valuable asset: its brand.
Perhaps they will be some calculated outcome in whatever product comes out of that org, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up pivoting to high quality cars with assisted driving (at best).
I think I would be quite happy to see them as a technology provider. Like cars have Bose or B&O sound, but for the full infotainment, cabin controls, etc.
However I would expect the auto maker to ensure they don’t go too low on buttons.
I honestly have no idea where all this is going. I’m curious. I think it would also make sense if they came up with good self driving stuff to just license that out to people, but that’s not the kind of thing Apple does. At least until now.
I agree with you that Apple would not want the headlines about their cars killing people. The way Tesla has had to deal with (right or wrong).
If Apple decides to begin manufacturing cars, would their prior experience with manufacturing help or is the domain sufficiently different for there not to be any significant knowledge carryover?
Are there any major or significant AI researchers working at Apple? It seems like I only ever hear about the big industry names moving between other big tech companies, but I'm not aware of anyone impactful in the AI space working at Apple. Maybe one of the key factors is that a lot of AI researchers like to publish their findings and Apple seems to be notoriously secretive? So even if Apple has a lot of top-tier researchers, maybe they're not publishing as much.
You don't need to have any prior manufacturing experience to build cars if you don't want it.
The car industry followed the semi industry with the fabless model, where not every brand needs to build a new factory for every model they sell but they often, especially for lower volume models like Fisker, subcontract manufacturing out to dedicated contract car manufacturers like Valmet[1] or Magna Steyr[2] who have their own fabs and experience and make cars for established big brands. They're kind of like the Foxconn of the car industry.
They outsource manufacturing so they have no tech there. Given Apple was the Tesla reject bin I'm sure we will see a lot of interesting things come out of this.
And yeah with AI, have a look at what companies they buy out. They won't be creating anything themselves. I'd be more interested to see if they make the mistake of relying on Lidar.
Chances are they're just trying to make something they can sell to existing car manufacturers. Like CarPlay just at a larger scale.
Has there been any vaguely reliable suggestion about their planned approach? An entire vehicle? Retrofitting existing vehicles? A layer that is licensed to auto partners? A new category of vehicle?
I don’t see any scenario where Apple doesn’t own the UX. They’re certainly not going to leave that to legacy automakers any more than they left the mobile UX to legacy phone makers. Maybe they buy a startup automaker like they bought PA Semi to jumpstart Apple Silicon.
The iPhone was Apple's peak. The car will be their undoing.
Can you imagine getting trying to get an Apple car repaired? They'll likely force you to buy your tires from them. Wheels on the Mac Pro cost hundreds, wheels for your Apple car will start at 2k each and will be serial locked to one vehicle.
Via CarPlay, Apple can already own the interesting parts of every car, so why get wrapped up in all the messy bits? Seems like they could do just as well buying up someone else who already has the car bits figured out, especially supply chain and distribution.
Traditional model car distribution (dealerships) is something Apple would likely be very unhappy with. Aside from the control of user experience being ceded in that model, nobody likes dealers anyway and bad dealers can stain the reputation of the brand involved.
Any kind of Apple car, whether it be purely Apple or a partnership is almost certainly going to be direct sale, cutting out dealers. It’s hard to imagine them doing anything else.
I would welcome this. There needs to be more direct sale options, I’m tired of looking at EV options to find all the local dealers have stocked only high end trims that they’ve further marked up with the base MSRP nowhere to be found.
> the company was “focusing on autonomous systems, and clearly one purpose of autonomous systems is self-driving cars.”
So autonomous systems != cars
Is Apple's foray into autonomous systems purely for R&D, keeping engineering staff engaged, and spend some cash?
I recall seeing a video of Tim Cook being asked if Apple was building a car and he said something like Apple looks at a lot of things.
To me, and this is just a theory, Apple car was something to keep the media distracted from other developments. For example, Mac Rumors says the Apple Vision Pro was in development for over 10 years. But the first time I heard about the rumor of an VR/AR headset was in 2021.
Cars are a whole different competency then consumer electronics. Regulations, service centers, spare parts—talk about a headache! And imagine the fallout if an Apple car crashes or strands someone in the dead of winter. The automotive industry is notorious for turning brand loyalists into disgruntled critics. I see it all the time- people who swear they will never buy BMW, Merc, Jag, Kia, and Jeep.
Apple likes to squeeze suppliers. Would they be able to squeeze LG Chem or BYD for batteries on this self-driving electric car? Perhaps Apple Car will have a cheap under powered Hyundai 1.6L turbo and the Apple Car Pro will be electric.
I was thinking of the Vision Pro too, though not in this way. If Apple shipped the same FSD that Tesla did, without lying but limitations not clearly shown in the marketing materials, it could be well received and the product viewed as a leading inspirational product showing a glimpse of what it will be.
I would love to see the Vision Pro used for something cool like letting you see into blind spots, but right now there are significant safety considerations, such as:
- 12ms latency possibly not being short enough for driving
- The cameras still being relatively low quality, especially at night
- The FOV being far too narrow to allow peripheral vision
- The screens going black if the headset loses power
I got to use Vision Pro in my local Apple store yesterday, and it's not usable for driving.
[+] [-] tasoeur|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MBCook|2 years ago|reply
However I would expect the auto maker to ensure they don’t go too low on buttons.
I honestly have no idea where all this is going. I’m curious. I think it would also make sense if they came up with good self driving stuff to just license that out to people, but that’s not the kind of thing Apple does. At least until now.
I agree with you that Apple would not want the headlines about their cars killing people. The way Tesla has had to deal with (right or wrong).
[+] [-] TheAceOfHearts|2 years ago|reply
Are there any major or significant AI researchers working at Apple? It seems like I only ever hear about the big industry names moving between other big tech companies, but I'm not aware of anyone impactful in the AI space working at Apple. Maybe one of the key factors is that a lot of AI researchers like to publish their findings and Apple seems to be notoriously secretive? So even if Apple has a lot of top-tier researchers, maybe they're not publishing as much.
[+] [-] FirmwareBurner|2 years ago|reply
The car industry followed the semi industry with the fabless model, where not every brand needs to build a new factory for every model they sell but they often, especially for lower volume models like Fisker, subcontract manufacturing out to dedicated contract car manufacturers like Valmet[1] or Magna Steyr[2] who have their own fabs and experience and make cars for established big brands. They're kind of like the Foxconn of the car industry.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmet_Automotive#Production
[2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Steyr#Produzierte_Fahrze...
[+] [-] conradev|2 years ago|reply
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-11-01/iphone-ma... https://archive.ph/WdSFX
[+] [-] jaimex2|2 years ago|reply
And yeah with AI, have a look at what companies they buy out. They won't be creating anything themselves. I'd be more interested to see if they make the mistake of relying on Lidar.
Chances are they're just trying to make something they can sell to existing car manufacturers. Like CarPlay just at a larger scale.
[+] [-] prawn|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ralph84|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mr_toad|2 years ago|reply
Designed in California. Made in China.
[+] [-] macinjosh|2 years ago|reply
Can you imagine getting trying to get an Apple car repaired? They'll likely force you to buy your tires from them. Wheels on the Mac Pro cost hundreds, wheels for your Apple car will start at 2k each and will be serial locked to one vehicle.
[+] [-] poulsbohemian|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jwells89|2 years ago|reply
Any kind of Apple car, whether it be purely Apple or a partnership is almost certainly going to be direct sale, cutting out dealers. It’s hard to imagine them doing anything else.
I would welcome this. There needs to be more direct sale options, I’m tired of looking at EV options to find all the local dealers have stocked only high end trims that they’ve further marked up with the base MSRP nowhere to be found.
[+] [-] kalleboo|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] MichaelMug|2 years ago|reply
So autonomous systems != cars
Is Apple's foray into autonomous systems purely for R&D, keeping engineering staff engaged, and spend some cash?
I recall seeing a video of Tim Cook being asked if Apple was building a car and he said something like Apple looks at a lot of things.
To me, and this is just a theory, Apple car was something to keep the media distracted from other developments. For example, Mac Rumors says the Apple Vision Pro was in development for over 10 years. But the first time I heard about the rumor of an VR/AR headset was in 2021.
Cars are a whole different competency then consumer electronics. Regulations, service centers, spare parts—talk about a headache! And imagine the fallout if an Apple car crashes or strands someone in the dead of winter. The automotive industry is notorious for turning brand loyalists into disgruntled critics. I see it all the time- people who swear they will never buy BMW, Merc, Jag, Kia, and Jeep.
Apple likes to squeeze suppliers. Would they be able to squeeze LG Chem or BYD for batteries on this self-driving electric car? Perhaps Apple Car will have a cheap under powered Hyundai 1.6L turbo and the Apple Car Pro will be electric.
[+] [-] mgh2|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] promiseofbeans|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] judge2020|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MBCook|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] karmakaze|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mistletoe|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pengaru|2 years ago|reply
https://cyberplace.social/@GossiTheDog/111873099676770329
[+] [-] LoganDark|2 years ago|reply
- 12ms latency possibly not being short enough for driving
- The cameras still being relatively low quality, especially at night
- The FOV being far too narrow to allow peripheral vision
- The screens going black if the headset loses power
I got to use Vision Pro in my local Apple store yesterday, and it's not usable for driving.
[+] [-] FooBarBizBazz|2 years ago|reply