[theNJR]

From this article “Female suicides decrease by 8% to 16%”.

Yet, from another study

“In the United States, the rate of suicide among persons who are divorced or separated is usually reported as about 2.4 times greater than the suicide rate for married persons. ”

And

“For every one divorced woman who dies by suicide, there are nine divorced men who do so.”

Seems like we are managing against the wrong metric.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/acquainted-the-night...

[andrew_gs]

I'm divorced. By the time you make the decision to leave your partner your life is in a bit a shambles. Something you thought would last together is about to end and if you have kids with your ex (I have 3) then you're about to enter into one of the most stressful and complicated parts of your life.

Of course the suicide right is going to be higher, but you shouldn't compare it against the part of the population who is happily married, you would have to compare it to the people who are desperately unhappy in their marriage and don't get divorced. At the end of my marriage I still dearly loved my wife, but hadn't been happy for years and I was wishing for death to give me a noble exit from a situation I couldn't see a way out of myself.

[slowhadoken]

Guys take all the blame for divorce. I’ve know married women with kids that were monsters and everyone pitied them. There’s a strong, verging on psychotic, bias towards women in society and family court.

[iteria]

I would be interested to compare this to homicide rates. Because I remember reading that when no fault divorce was allowed male lifespan increased.

I also think it's too early to really look at these rates. Of course many women would be happy they weren't destitute when they got married during a time when women couldn't have bank accounts. Of course men would feel put out when they were used to having everything handled by their wife and existed during a time where joint custody was not so common.

I'd like to see these studies again in 20 or so years when most people surveyed got married out of commitment instead of life necessity.

[Jensson]

> I'd like to see these studies again in 20 or so years when most people surveyed got married out of commitment instead of life necessity.

We are already there, what kind of world are you imagining? The need for women to marry was removed 50-60 years ago in the west, there hasn't been a necessity to marry in a really long time, you might have some really old couples left from the time before that but it wouldn't affect statistics much.

[orwin]

That's definitely true, in my grandmother family, it was was an open secret (or rather a mean and quite unfunny running joke) that her aunt managed to get out of her arranged marriage after ten years by "inadvertently" poisoning her abusive husband. I can only speculate that they had fertility issues since after 10 years they did not had any kids, and that could have been a reason why he became violent.

[silverquiet]

It sounds like men should either not get married, or if they do, then endeavor quite seriously to keep their wives happy. Personally, I have to say I've never really "gotten it" so-to-speak - I really never felt a desire to get married and/or have children, so this is no great worry for me. But I do normally feel quite counter-cultural when I express it.

[wouldbecouldbe]

There is a great joy in building a deep bond with a partner.

There are definitely difficulties, but no need to throw out the baby with bathwater, if done right a partner & children are one of the biggest joys & sources of meaning for life.

[freitzkriesler2]

Happy wife happy life is a lie.

Being a doormat to your partner is a great way to end up miserable.

You will have arguments and challenges. Those are good things and sometimes it needs to be said and worked out .

Marriage was always a partnership and a business in the past. Treat it as such anx you'll find it works way better.

[cjbgkagh]

Once people are in the position to gain from not being happy they will never be happy, "appetite comes with eating".

[AussieWog93]

>It sounds like men should either not get married, or if they do, then endeavor quite seriously to keep their wives happy.

I'm happily married, and in the sense of being counter-cultural would be in completely the other end of the spectrum (very conservative about family, intend on having 6-8 kids that I will cherish even when they're adults).

That said, I think you've hit the nail on the head about "happy wife, happy life".

It's important to basically dedicate your life to being in service to her, but on the flip side it's important for her to do the same.

This level of dedication is almost counter-cultural in a sense, because you're not putting yourself first, but it's absolutely worth it in the long run.

On a visceral level, you feel always loved, always important, always worthy.

[cobertos]

> then endeavor quite seriously to keep their wives happy

Why not just find someone who is already content living their life single but enjoys the added social aspects of a relationship? That plus someone where those social aspects happen naturally without a lot of using the finite motivational energy.

Then there's no expectation or perceived responsibility to have a sort of dependency relationship, and the happy social reinforcing moments happen naturally.

[mgaunard]

Usually the idea of marriage comes from a romantic idea of building something together with a partner.

If you ignore the romance, and only consider the practicalities, there is no good reason to get married. It doesn't offer significant rights or benefits and mostly puts you at risk and restricts your option.

Me, I've been married, and I know I'll likely do it again. Not for personal gain, but because I'm a fool who believes in love.

[anonym29]

"Happy Wife, Happy Life"

[assimpleaspossi]

For a period of time, I was in a situation where I would come into contact with people at their apartments. I saw so many unhappy--downright miserable--women who were recently divorced. I just never thought about it before but there it was in front of me so many times.

[c0pium]

Culture in the United States is aggressively uninterested in men’s mental health. It is always the last thing to consider and the first thing to drop. See also university admissions/graduation rates.

If you’re a man in the US: You. Are. On. Your. Own.

[rapind]

Because it's manly to be on your own emotionally (said western society at large).

[teaearlgraycold]

I don’t know if this is really universally true. But I do expect there are large pockets of the population for which it is. For me I have a number of male and female friends that are emotionally supportive, my parents are good in this regard as well.

[vdaea]

Men have always been on their own. It's now more evident than ever, though.

Good thing they used that autonomy to build... everything.

[darth_avocado]

So people committing suicide are abusers and toxic males?

[dvt]

So your argument is "suicide is good as long as (toxic) men do it"? Come on, please try to keep HN substantially more intellectually stimulating than reddit and its ilk.

[reso]

Are you suggesting we restrict divorce in order to reduce male suicide?

[useless_foghorn]

All social pressures have a cost and an optimal balance. Men tend toward a less bonded mating strategy, and divorce law seems to seek to punish that behavior (which, again, can be offset by prenups). A symptom of a social pressure that is out of balance might be disproportionate male suicide rate.

[bitshiftfaced]

I didn't get that impression. To me it's more about calling into question bringing up certain statistics when if you were to really make policy based on unbiased decision-making, then you'd have to ask uncomfortable questions just like the one you've asked.

[svnt]

Better protections for men from the social consequences that some women architect purely out of spite would go a long way.

I’m often in awe that we can both propose equal rights and responsibilities and sympathetically treat forty-year-old adults as children in these situations, but only if they belong to one sex. The other sex gets disgust or at best pity.