Amongst others; Oura Health Oy (#134650) also provided funding for this work.
For these daily self-reported temperature assessments, participants used their own thermometers (which were not provided by the study, and which may have been of any brand), and we did not ask participants to report the type of thermometer used or the method of body temperature assessment. Not good research criteria!
The PROMIS T-scores: They appear to have an 8 question questionaire for every illness on the planet.
Can anyone really do a diagnostic test with just 8 questions and conclude that someone has a mental illness. Absolutely not! Yet they have us believe that you can.
Psychiatrists have been using short questionaires for years to assess anxiety and depression and most forms of mental illness. None of them work or are accurate.
Nit: mental health surveys/assessments are a screening tool, not intended to be used on their own for a diagnosis. They work as they are intended to, identifying individuals who are at risk or displaying common symptoms so that mental health professionals can then proceed with further testing and discussion to make a diagnosis. They’re not always used correctly, but they are useful.
I was going to say, I thought we've known this for at least two decades.
Depression is considered an inflammation-associated disorder, and improper/constant activation of cross-reactive inflammation pathways eats into mitochondrial energy production (The Powerhouse Of the Cell(tm)), which means energy that would go keeping you warm isn't.
The body, for some adaptive reason (and presumably a good one), doesn't turn up energy production to compensate.
I don't know if this is a wide phenomenon, but when I get angry or frustrated, my body temp skyrockets. I have to take off clothes I get hot so fast. Happens mostly when I'm working from home and getting pissed off at the computer.
maybe weird... I'm suffering from migraine sometimes, my face starts feeling cold, including teeth and hard palate. So I measured and it was 33 c°, told a few doctors and got no response, still looking for a cause/solution.
I'm also a depression sufferer, and the days after seem to be more anxious. Tried to go to the sauna with the symtoms, but couldn't handle more than 20 minutes last time. Felt better right after, but got more cold afterwards.
Could be perimenopausal (40, female).
I've been tracking food for a while (elimination diet works for my depression), and the days leading up to the attack, I had some mixed foods, tsatziki and some curry sauce where the sauce tasted weird. AND I ate kinda low fat the last few days. Also no doctor could tell me how that is connected, they just try to put me on statins. Probably lean mass hyper responder, no proof though.
Within the keto community low body temperature was mentioned a few times, some of them take crazy amounts of iodine. Not sure I want to do that.
My wife has gone through perimenopause for a while now (ages really, probably O(15 years)), and the number of potential symptoms connected to it are immense, while the awareness from medical providers is pretty minimal. Mental issues, Food/blood sugar stuff, the well known hot flashes, cold flashes, the works.
What's worked for her is HRT, and more recently, intermittent fasting. (food between noon and 8pm only, but whatever in that time) It's really worth getting hormone levels checked and adjusted.
I am not a doctor but i think 33 degrees celcius means you need to go to the ER.. or that your measurent device is off. I cannot see doctors letting you leave the hospital like that
The commonality between manic depression and ADHD is low serotonin up take. The primary role of serotonin is mood regulation, but the consequences of poor mood regulation are complex even if the problem is simple. Converse that against dopamine deficiency which is a complex problem with limited consequences that plagues ADHD but not so much manic depression.
Low serotonin can result in metabolic inefficiencies which means poor body temperature and/or weight gain/loss out of norm even with a perfect diet. Over correcting with too much serotonin results in different mood irregularities like nightmares and anxiety and more.
The primary limitation with these problems, aside from metabolic issues, are poor decision skills that in isolation are either prematurely considered or too emotionally weighted.
If 33C is your core temp that's way low. You should escalate that beyond just telling doctors, it may be a serious blood pressure issue (or your thermometer might be off!).
> Today I'm signed up to become a specialist for allergies and food intolerance, in the hopes to find something that works
not a doctor and this isnt medical advice. It may be low stomach acid if you struggle with digestion? Non-scientific but try an at home burp test for 3-5 mornings. i know someone with chronic low acid for years that went unnoticed, and doctors didnt spot it after trying PPIs, etc. Odds are low, but might be worth looking into
I have a hard time making sense of parts of this article.
RE: Treatment:
"“What is we can track the body temperature of people with depression to time heat-based treatments well?”
"If thermoregulation is a symptom of depression, as the Oura Ring study suggests, temperature treatment could be an effective way to treat depression."
Thermoregulation is a symptom of depression? How do they reach the conclusion that "temperature treatment" could treat depression, and why do they not define what "temperature treament" even is? As someone with MDD I seriously doubt making myself warm more often is going to affect my symptoms, but it's certainly an alluring concept as I do enjoy saunas.
The article is not very good, but the overall direction seem to check out quite well with other research. There seem to be a proven correlation between inflammation and depression. Furthermore anti-inflammatory drugs seem to provide efficient anti-depressant care in some cases. They would lover your body temperature too.
Conversely I can imagine regular visits to a sauna to affect chronic inflammation processes in your body in some way and then potentially affect the depression too.
Overall I have a strong feeling that depression itself is very akin to fever: a symptom of a very wide range of different problems that require different treatments. Sometimes just the symptomatic care is sufficient, sometimes it's even essential or else you die. Anti-inflammatory drugs are a thing and so are the anti-depressants. But studying and treating depression as a distinct disease probably makes no more sense than studying and treating fever as a distinct disease.
This is just my hunch, but I think temperature treatment is the wrong conclusion to this finding. When someone is sick with a virus and has a fever, people suggest taking ibuprofen to lower the fever effectively masking the symptoms, but that does nothing to address the underlying cause.
I think this finding can be helpful is trying to find other ways to reduce inflammation in the body (assuming inflammation is driving the temperature increase) Interventions like diet changes could lead to both less inflammation and less depression.
There’s research that getting really hot (ie with hot saunas) can affect depression. One interesting supporting finding is that if you run around but don’t get hot (ie don’t sweat) then the exercise doesn’t do much for depression
I am wondering if you can just cool down your body to fix it. I had panic attacks in the past and now from time to time i am experience mild anxiety. Eventually i learned that hot shower or hot bed (i have 8sleep) actually increases anxiety, making my bed colder calms anxiety. This makes sense since anxiety and many other disorders are just overloading the body and cooling down stops the chemical processes that causes them.
Not sure about "fix" but cooling the body via hot showers is a fairly common recommendation for anxiety relief, especially prior to sleep.
Supposedly, if you cool the body down externally (cold shower, cold environment) it will try to increase body temp, but if you take a hot shower or sauna, the body will instead try to lower its temperature.
Many parts of the world don't have AC, and many people in those parts are not depressed.
Source: it's 22h00 here and its probably about 28C in my bedroom now. The walls are radiating heat into the room after baking in the sun the whole day. All my windows are open and ceiling fan is on. I'll be sleeping on top of a towel tonight as to not destroy my mattress.
> The researchers determined that the body temperature of men born in the early to mid-1990s is on average 1.06 F lower than that of men born in the early 1800s. Similarly, they determined that the body temperature of women born in the early to mid-1990s is on average 0.58 F lower than that of women born in the 1890s. These calculations correspond to a decrease in body temperature of 0.05 F every decade.
People are now also taller, with more body mass but possibly less muscle mass, likely less fit, and have clothes of likely better quality. Unclear how these factors would affect final body temp overall.
They're pretty good, though battery life is an issue with some firmware revs. (n-2: bad, n-1: 100% better, current: iffy). So far my wife's ring has lasted well longer than my Apple Watch.
My wife's therapist recently instructed her to start plunging her face in ice when she gets overwhelmed with anxiety (mostly because she was refusing to consider meds)
The ice plunge is generally understood to help by stimulating the vagus nerve and parasympathetic nervous system. But I wonder if it is related to this too.
About one in five adults wore a fitness tracker, either as a band or smartwatch, in 2020, according to the Pew Research Center.
I'm sure it's higher now and yet obesity rates keep going up. Shows how ineffective these solutions are. People are more active and tracking their calories yet weight gain is unstoppable.
That's a very generalised take with a big assumption.
I don't think wearing a smartwatch will immediately shed you weight. You actually need to actively put in the work both through exercise and a proper diet.
A watch is just a tool that supports the rest of it.
More people might be consuming diet beverages as well and yet weights might be going up, that may not necessarily be the failing of the diet beverage.
I had a gf that joined a female dance/pilates type gym and went religiously, yet actually gained weight over the year. When I told her that the two scoops of protein powder she was taking at lunch were probably causing weight gain because no girl needs an additional 60 grams of protein on top of a well balanced diet we already had, she got mad. Eventually we broke up because I can't deal with someone that can't have a logical discussion. She's now even heavier, yet still going to that gym years later.
Wearing a fitness tracking device gives you this illusion of working on your health and fitness without actually doing so.
I know many people who wear Whoop bands and swear by it but month after month their clothing gets just a little tighter and their double chins just a little bigger.
Imagine standing at top of edge cliff with your feed halfway into the air,
teetering, swaying a little. For a lot of people that would increase
their body temprature, and casue anxiety and stress.
Yes they would have elevated body temperature, but that does not
indicate that it is the symptom to focus upon.
With a severe depression a person will go through periods of extreme anxiety,
guilt, for some suicidal thoughts, and in general serious continuous stress.
Parts of the brain get rewired, with long term depression.
They will experience periods of elevated body temperature, heck high enough
to be categorized as a fever in some cases, but lowering the body temperature,
for instance, with a cool bath or cool wrappings, is not going to
change or alleviate depression.
Feels like we're living in the dark ages of correlations. Given today's compute power and availability of medical data, why wasn't this already a well known fact?
Do you have the slightest idea how many variables to check for correlations there are in a biological system as complex as the human body? And how few of those variables can be reliably measured and analyzed at the same time in most of these studies?
Ironically, heating people up actually can lead to rebound body temperature lowering that lasts longer than simply cooling people down directly, as through an ice bath
Sounds to me like there is unrecognized infection causing a low-grade fever and heat treatments kill infection, allowing the fever to break.
[+] [-] reify|2 years ago|reply
A massive document saying nothing of use.
Amongst others; Oura Health Oy (#134650) also provided funding for this work.
For these daily self-reported temperature assessments, participants used their own thermometers (which were not provided by the study, and which may have been of any brand), and we did not ask participants to report the type of thermometer used or the method of body temperature assessment. Not good research criteria!
The PROMIS T-scores: They appear to have an 8 question questionaire for every illness on the planet.
https://www.healthmeasures.net/score-and-interpret/interpret...
Can anyone really do a diagnostic test with just 8 questions and conclude that someone has a mental illness. Absolutely not! Yet they have us believe that you can.
Psychiatrists have been using short questionaires for years to assess anxiety and depression and most forms of mental illness. None of them work or are accurate.
[+] [-] mcmcmc|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pedalpete|2 years ago|reply
The study not only states that body temperature is higher, but also the mechanism by which this occurs which is related to 5-HTTLPR deletion.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12759553/
[+] [-] DiabloD3|2 years ago|reply
Depression is considered an inflammation-associated disorder, and improper/constant activation of cross-reactive inflammation pathways eats into mitochondrial energy production (The Powerhouse Of the Cell(tm)), which means energy that would go keeping you warm isn't.
The body, for some adaptive reason (and presumably a good one), doesn't turn up energy production to compensate.
[+] [-] FraterSKM|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwawaaarrgh|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aszantu|2 years ago|reply
I've been tracking food for a while (elimination diet works for my depression), and the days leading up to the attack, I had some mixed foods, tsatziki and some curry sauce where the sauce tasted weird. AND I ate kinda low fat the last few days. Also no doctor could tell me how that is connected, they just try to put me on statins. Probably lean mass hyper responder, no proof though.
Within the keto community low body temperature was mentioned a few times, some of them take crazy amounts of iodine. Not sure I want to do that.
been collecting for a while https://github.com/cutestuff/FoodDepressionConundrum/blob/ma...
[+] [-] wiredfool|2 years ago|reply
What's worked for her is HRT, and more recently, intermittent fasting. (food between noon and 8pm only, but whatever in that time) It's really worth getting hormone levels checked and adjusted.
[+] [-] asimovfan|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] austin-cheney|2 years ago|reply
Low serotonin can result in metabolic inefficiencies which means poor body temperature and/or weight gain/loss out of norm even with a perfect diet. Over correcting with too much serotonin results in different mood irregularities like nightmares and anxiety and more.
The primary limitation with these problems, aside from metabolic issues, are poor decision skills that in isolation are either prematurely considered or too emotionally weighted.
[+] [-] cperciva|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacquesm|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] penjelly|2 years ago|reply
not a doctor and this isnt medical advice. It may be low stomach acid if you struggle with digestion? Non-scientific but try an at home burp test for 3-5 mornings. i know someone with chronic low acid for years that went unnoticed, and doctors didnt spot it after trying PPIs, etc. Odds are low, but might be worth looking into
[+] [-] dronienothong|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] standardly|2 years ago|reply
RE: Treatment:
"“What is we can track the body temperature of people with depression to time heat-based treatments well?”
"If thermoregulation is a symptom of depression, as the Oura Ring study suggests, temperature treatment could be an effective way to treat depression."
Thermoregulation is a symptom of depression? How do they reach the conclusion that "temperature treatment" could treat depression, and why do they not define what "temperature treament" even is? As someone with MDD I seriously doubt making myself warm more often is going to affect my symptoms, but it's certainly an alluring concept as I do enjoy saunas.
[+] [-] alexey-salmin|2 years ago|reply
Conversely I can imagine regular visits to a sauna to affect chronic inflammation processes in your body in some way and then potentially affect the depression too.
Overall I have a strong feeling that depression itself is very akin to fever: a symptom of a very wide range of different problems that require different treatments. Sometimes just the symptomatic care is sufficient, sometimes it's even essential or else you die. Anti-inflammatory drugs are a thing and so are the anti-depressants. But studying and treating depression as a distinct disease probably makes no more sense than studying and treating fever as a distinct disease.
[+] [-] gmuslera|2 years ago|reply
I know that forcing a happy face could lighten up a bit your mood, but this is going too far, and maybe is too simplistic in its view of depression.
[+] [-] francisofascii|2 years ago|reply
I think this finding can be helpful is trying to find other ways to reduce inflammation in the body (assuming inflammation is driving the temperature increase) Interventions like diet changes could lead to both less inflammation and less depression.
[+] [-] Peregrine1|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ex3ndr|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] svrtknst|2 years ago|reply
Supposedly, if you cool the body down externally (cold shower, cold environment) it will try to increase body temp, but if you take a hot shower or sauna, the body will instead try to lower its temperature.
[+] [-] antoniojtorres|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxglute|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beAbU|2 years ago|reply
Source: it's 22h00 here and its probably about 28C in my bedroom now. The walls are radiating heat into the room after baking in the sun the whole day. All my windows are open and ceiling fan is on. I'll be sleeping on top of a towel tonight as to not destroy my mattress.
I'm definitely not depressed... I think.
[+] [-] NoPicklez|2 years ago|reply
Here in Australia, summers are usually associated with happiness, social gatherings, beach, BBQ's
The article talks more about self regulation regardless of outside temperature influence.
[+] [-] iamthirsty|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mistletoe|2 years ago|reply
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/01/human-body-te...
> The researchers determined that the body temperature of men born in the early to mid-1990s is on average 1.06 F lower than that of men born in the early 1800s. Similarly, they determined that the body temperature of women born in the early to mid-1990s is on average 0.58 F lower than that of women born in the 1890s. These calculations correspond to a decrease in body temperature of 0.05 F every decade.
[+] [-] naasking|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaycebasques|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wiredfool|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qiine|2 years ago|reply
https://www.tomsguide.com/news/samsung-galaxy-ring
[+] [-] aitchnyu|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hdanirwin|2 years ago|reply
The ice plunge is generally understood to help by stimulating the vagus nerve and parasympathetic nervous system. But I wonder if it is related to this too.
[+] [-] paulpauper|2 years ago|reply
I'm sure it's higher now and yet obesity rates keep going up. Shows how ineffective these solutions are. People are more active and tracking their calories yet weight gain is unstoppable.
[+] [-] DoreenMichele|2 years ago|reply
* https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/09/13/food-nutrie...
[+] [-] NoPicklez|2 years ago|reply
I don't think wearing a smartwatch will immediately shed you weight. You actually need to actively put in the work both through exercise and a proper diet.
A watch is just a tool that supports the rest of it.
More people might be consuming diet beverages as well and yet weights might be going up, that may not necessarily be the failing of the diet beverage.
[+] [-] talldatethrow|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lethologica|2 years ago|reply
I know many people who wear Whoop bands and swear by it but month after month their clothing gets just a little tighter and their double chins just a little bigger.
[+] [-] nsillik|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quickthrower2|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zxlu|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fpiacenza|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ThinkBeat|2 years ago|reply
Yes they would have elevated body temperature, but that does not indicate that it is the symptom to focus upon.
With a severe depression a person will go through periods of extreme anxiety, guilt, for some suicidal thoughts, and in general serious continuous stress. Parts of the brain get rewired, with long term depression.
They will experience periods of elevated body temperature, heck high enough to be categorized as a fever in some cases, but lowering the body temperature, for instance, with a cool bath or cool wrappings, is not going to change or alleviate depression.
[+] [-] hasty_pudding|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] amelius|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ben_w|2 years ago|reply
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
[+] [-] vanderZwan|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DoreenMichele|2 years ago|reply
Sounds to me like there is unrecognized infection causing a low-grade fever and heat treatments kill infection, allowing the fever to break.