I appeared on CNN this morning to talk about why I'm not buying Facebook (CISPA)

[tptacek]

CISPA? What about the Facebook Terms of Service? They include the following words:

We may also share information when we have a good faith belief it is necessary to: detect, prevent and address fraud and other illegal activity; to protect ourselves and you from violations of our Statement of Rights and Responsibilities; and to prevent death or imminent bodily harm.

This is a broader privacy exemption than CISPA offers; CISPA (in its final amended state) actually goes through some effort to define and narrow the scope of what it's "protecting" and what "illegal" activity it governs. Unlike the Facebook ToS, CISPA explicitly excludes mere "violation of consumer licenses" from its scope.

[djb_hackernews]

I'll take the bait (not implying that you are trying to troll).

The difference now is CISPA gets the government involved. Up until now, yes, FB has had a relaxed attitude toward user data when it comes to the law. However, I and many others, believe the government and via proxy the MPAA and RIAAs of the world will now have access to this data and it will be misused and abused all in the name of CISPA and with authority.

[chernevik]

The point of not buying Facebook because of CISPA would tell more if the point were expanded to the sustainability of their business model. For example, what does their support say about their relationship with users going forward? Bearing in mind that, as users currently don't seem to care, we're talking about a set of concerns that presumably will emerge down the road. What are those concerns and how will they emerge?

Remember that we're talking about questions that didn't exist five years ago, and to which there isn't any community consensus. Most investors won't understand the argument, never mind Alex's side of it. So educate them: Tell them how the issue speaks to how these choices will evolve, and bring forth concerns that are currently held by only a few people. Point out that it was a similar group of people that worried about the Microsoft OS model twenty years ago, and that they were so right that the work they did on own on open source laid much of the groundwork for our current environment.

If you can get investors to link stuff like CISPA to business model sustainability, they'll go to school on the issues, and the conclusions they form will shape the equity marketplace for every social media company to come. But they have to hear what the debate is, and its implications for the businesses.

[tptacek]

As a persuasive strategy this makes a lot of sense and I see the value of the comment. But on the specifics: do you have something in mind as to how CISPA might impact Fb's relationship with its users, or its business model? Obviously, I'm asking because I'm skeptical that there is any such impact, but I'm very interested in your reasoning.

[jaysonelliot]

Great interview, but I feel there was a missed opportunity when the interviewer asked about Zuckerberg's comment "we don't build services to make money, we make money to build great services."

The panel acted as if that were an iconoclastic, even blasphemous thing to say. That attitude, that only focusing on quarterly results and "building shareholder value," is of course just the attitude that has gotten the business world in so much trouble. There have been some great articles of late exploding the myth of "shareholder value," from Steve Denning's brilliant Forbes article "The Dumbest Idea in the World" http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2011/11/28/maximizi... to James Allworth at the Harvard Business Review talking about Steve Jobs and the Innovator's Dilemma: http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2011/10/steve_jobs_solved_the_innova...

I thought kn0thing had a great answer when he described that as part of the ethos of "builder culture," to be sure. If only the panel had taken a moment to ask themselves whether that approach might actually lead to stronger profits and stronger companies overall, such as one of the best examples around, Apple.

[AndrewWarner]

The kind of discussion you (and I) would have liked to see doesn't happen on CNN.

[bryanh]

kn0thing is a stellar spokesperson for the hacker community.

I am curious though, how did this (you becoming a go to commentator for tech) end up happening?

[kn0thing]

Thank you.

Well, before the SOPA/PIPA frenzy of MSNBC, CNN, CNBC, Fox, and Bloomberg... I became a 'regular' tech correspondent on Bloomberg after moving to NY and appearing on a panel moderated by Margaret Brennan. She invited me to appear and they kept inviting me back (they liked the combo of 'good on air' and 'actually did it').

http://search1.bloomberg.com/search/?content_type=video&...

To their credit, BloombergTV let me talk about SOPA there before any other broadcast TV news channel.

After Soledad had me on to talk SOPA/PIPA protests and she and her producers dug my style.

CNN even let me announce my joining the DonorsChoose.org advisory board meeting on air at SXSW.

http://startingpoint.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/09/harnessing-ben...

[tptacek]

As I understand it, and from very limited experience: it is extremely difficult to speak that naturally and coherently on television. It seems plausible that having spoken compellingly once on CNN (when Reddit was at the center of the SOPA debate), CNN has now locked onto him as a viable tech commentator.

(I'm glad of that, in case that comment sounded dismissive.)

[mhp]

Surprising that no one corrected her about "Zuckerberg owning 57% of the company", but I guess it's a) not that important and b) rude to correct the host. (I think he only has about 28% but controls 57% of the voting stock).

[EricDeb]

I know!! I kept thinking that throughout the interview. It's implying his wealth is much greater than it actually is (not that it isn't great already)

[antimora]

I was going to make the same comment but before I made it I "CTRL+F" 57 and found your comment.

[tlrobinson]

"...and the rest would be up for sale"

I don't think she understands how IPOs work.

[danvoell]

Very eloquent knOthing, keep keeping it real on the big media stage. Not sure if I will follow your stock tips though.

[kn0thing]

Thank you! Hehe. Admittedly, fb is probably going to keep crushing it - I just wish they weren't crushing our open internet, too.

[blafro]

For those of us at work with mute permanently turned on of necessity, a quick summary?

[guelo]

- He's not planning on buying FB stock because of their support for bills like CISPA.

- Investors might not like Zuckerberg's "builder culture"

- He wouldn't be surprised to see more acquisitions by FB

- We need more programmers

- When he sold Reddit to privately-held Conde he knew who he had to satisfy, unlike Zuckerberg and his investors.

[jonknee]

As the headline suggests, CISPA.

[Irishsteve]

Loved the silence when Mr Reddit discussed his ethical reasons for not investing. It seemed lost on the panel.

[namidark]

Video cuts off at the end while he's still talking

[kn0thing]

You didn't miss much. Just one of the guests making fun of how geeks dress.

[djb_hackernews]

Great job, though I wish it was made clear that CISPA, etc and Facebooks willingness to participate threatens FB as a business.

[tptacek]

How does CISPA threaten Facebook as a business? If CISPA did threaten Facebook, why did they publicly support it?

[pinchyfingers]

In addition to opposing CISPA on moral grounds, do you think that Facebook's attitude towards similar issues and their willingness to compromise user privacy will have a negative financial impact? That is, will enough users turn away from Facebook because of a fear and poor user experience to cause the company to lose money?

[ma2xd]

Q: Who uses Facebook? A: Millions of MySpacers

:)

[dobalina]

"We've never seen a company like this before, ever. I mean it knows things about our private lives that no one else does."

Um I would be inclined to say Google knows far more about us all then Facebook does or can ever dream of.

[faramarz]

That's interesting. Is this view shared by other YC Partners?

[jsnk]

How do you go about buying Facebook stocks as a Canadian?

[jonknee]

Just like you'd buy any other stock on the NASDAQ or NYSE...

[faramarz]

Most banks (CIBC, RBC and TD) have their investment vehicles. Be prepared to pay as much as $40 commission per trade + 1-3 cent per stock. Look into this option if you already use online banking and like to keep your investment aligned with everything else.

otherwise, look at discount brokerages like Questtrade(Toronto based) and eTrade to execute orders. $9 per trad.

[sohels]

What is Facebook?

[tar]

It's a social network like MySpace and Friendster.

[sohels]

psst... i was just being sarcastic... why down vote?