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Smoking has long-term effects on the immune system

71 points| gmays | 2 years ago |pasteur.fr | reply

160 comments

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[+] Jcampuzano2|2 years ago|reply
If you're still smoking or at least not putting in a real effort to stop in modern day, you simply don't care for your health at all in the first place.

I hate the smell of it and how it feels breathing it, every time I walk behind somebody smoking while walking somewhere I literally run in front of them or cross the street. I honestly think public smoking should just be outright banned for being a health hazard against others.

If you still want to smoke, go to small out of the way designated places for it where you aren't bothering others.

[+] VoodooJuJu|2 years ago|reply
Although the health reason for stopping smoking is the best reason, I think the deeper reason that cigarettes are so reviled isn't the small amount of second-hand smoke, that's just the reason people give, but that it's a public display of vice, which isn't acceptable in culturally Puritan areas.

Puritans did something similar during their witch trials. They say they're burning someone for being a witch, but nearly all of their victims just so happened to have one of the following characteristics: spinsters with no children, widows who never remarried, single men into their 30s who never mastered a craft or became a clergyman, etc.

These were universally unacceptable, impure traits. Puritans were all about the collective rather than the individual, and they believed that the collective had the liberty to shape and bend the individual to its will, else the collective suffers. Non-conformists were made to conform, whether through shunning, shame, or violence, or else they were removed from the collective.

So no, you can't smoke in public, not because we care about your health or our health, but because it is decidedly impure, and a good Puritan must be pure, and if a member be not pure, he must be shamed and molded to be so, for if we're not all pure, our moral fabric comes apart.

Culture fundamentally changes very slowly over time, although the particulars may transform quite a lot, and this is a great example of that. A very interesting look at how Puritan culture is expressed in the modern day.

[+] DoreenMichele|2 years ago|reply
Smoking may be self medicating for depression and at least one study suggests smoking lowers the risk of death for people who suffer depression.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37923037

Some drugs that treat depression have a side effect of causing a lot of people to stop smoking. Maybe someday we will understand depression well enough to effectively and reliably treat it. At least until then, blanket statements about smoking aren't really reasonable.

I hate smoking. I have respiratory problems. I don't want people smoking around me.

But nicotine is a morally neutral chemical that, like any chemical, can have constructive uses.

[+] rpmisms|2 years ago|reply
Hey now. I'm a huge nicotine enjoyer, but I'm sitting pretty at maybe 10 cigarettes a year. I care about my health, but the occasional dart is too good to pass up.
[+] breather|2 years ago|reply
> you simply don't care for your health at all in the first place.

I don't really see an issue with this personally. Moralizing health is weird.

[+] Arn_Thor|2 years ago|reply
I agree with the first part but I admit I love the smell of it. In small doses and always at some remove.
[+] mistermann|2 years ago|reply
I also often believe non-perfect things I do not like should be banned, regardless of whether the justification for that ban is epistemically sound.

But then I think about the law of unintended consequences (or from a more optimistic/fun angle, the perspective of "Optimal Gameplay"), like how the people I am inconveniencing while blindly maximizing my group's fine-grained personal enjoyment may seek revenge (consciously or otherwise) when the time arises where they happen to be the ones who hold power of any sort, such as the decision to comply with public health recommendations, as just one example among many, many thousands.

Sometimes my (or others, including those of The Experts) mind counters with attractive, rhetorical stories/memes to counter this approach, but I endeavour to apply critical consideration to those lest I mistake them for shared/primary reality.

I have no idea how well I perform at this, but my intuition is that it is better than if I did not try at all, which seems to be the default approach in our culture afaict.

[+] rshow|2 years ago|reply
While I love the smell of most cigarettes, I share your sentiments about the smell of weed. Most marijuana smoke elicits a visceral response in me that makes me want to throw up and reminds me of dead skunk roadkill.

That said, I put up with it because I respect the freedom of those wishing to enjoy it. I also have no choice, because the smell has become ubiquitous almost everywhere you go.

[+] kazinator|2 years ago|reply
In Japan, there are signs in places discouraging smoke-walking (arukitabako: 歩きタバコ. Image search that and you can see what the signs look like).

People who smoke and walk end up going in the same direction and pace as other people, annoying them. It's easier to avoid a smoker who is staying put.

[+] mil22|2 years ago|reply
Especially with the widespread availability of vapes, which are still pretty bad for you but substantially less so than cigarettes, there's no excuse these days.

I am the same way, I will risk getting hit by cars sometimes just to avoid smoke I hate it so much. Even outdoors after a brief exposure it gets lodged in your hair, clothes, and eyes. With the legalization of marijuana in so many places, the problem has become even worse.

[+] newZWhoDis|2 years ago|reply
I feel the same way about alcohol, it’s 20+ years behind the stigma curve though.
[+] ShamelessC|2 years ago|reply
> every time I walk behind somebody smoking while walking somewhere I literally run in front of them or cross the street

Damn that’s fairly passive aggressive. I no longer smoke but you’re aware it’s incredibly addictive?

[+] mtlmtlmtlmtl|2 years ago|reply
Give me a break. If you don't wanna experience smells you don't like, stay inside. That's your problem. Occasionally smelling some smoke while outside is not going to significantly affect your health. People smoking in public inside is a whole other level of exposure, and even there the effect isn't that big.

If you're really worried about inhaling stuff when outside, worry about something meaningful like diesel cars and aerosolised dust.

[+] lnxg33k1|2 years ago|reply
I think you did well saying you cross the street, but then suggested that I solve your problem for you, how entitled, you are annoyed by smoking and I have to go in the cage, I could say, if you are annoyed by people smoking wear a mask or stay at home
[+] JackMorgan|2 years ago|reply
I'm taking an EMT class now and it's extremely sobering how many horrifying ways to die are directly caused by one of: high blood pressure, obesity, or smoking.

We're in the cardio module now, and about 3/4ths of the class is already talking about signing a DNR. Death from one of those three is often long and extremely painful. We've got so many ways we are legally required to keep the body "alive". There's a lot worse things out there than death.

Keep fit out there folks. If you don't know where to start, check out intermittent fasting 16/8.

[+] scinerio|2 years ago|reply
IMO fasting won't help the majority of the population since their diets tend to consist of foods that are designed to be highly consumable at volume. While the theory of time-restricted eating implies you will eat less, you can still easily exceed your TDEE in calories.

Skip the fasting; exercise and eat real whole foods. It's pretty difficult to do both of those things and not lose weight.

[+] jstummbillig|2 years ago|reply
If you don't know where to start, just fucking move.
[+] inglor_cz|2 years ago|reply
High blood pressure and obesity appear to be part of the same metabolic syndrome.

I am all for fasting, but it won't make your death necessarily less painful. The best you can hope for is to live a decade longer and possibly make use of the progress of medical science.

(It is possible that we will have a breakthrough in longevity. In that case, well, it makes a LOT of sense to be alive to see it.)

[+] tejohnso|2 years ago|reply
> We've got so many ways we are legally required to keep the body "alive".

Could you say more about this? I've heard of rib breaking CPR but curious to know about others.

[+] bongodongobob|2 years ago|reply
How is that considered fasting?

Eat breakfast at 9, lunch at noon, and dinner at 5.

That's just a normal day.

[+] Majestic121|2 years ago|reply
> Three variables stood out: smoking, latent cytomegalovirus infection(2) and body mass index. "The influence of these three factors on certain immune responses could be equal to that of age, sex or genetics," points out Darragh Duffy.

OK, smoking is bad, but it seems everyone already knows that one way or another, just like obesity.

It's the first time I hear of latent cytomegalovirus infection though, which apparently has a very strong impact. Is this worth it to be tested against, preventively ?

[+] Amorymeltzer|2 years ago|reply
>Is this worth it to be tested against, preventively ?

Unless you're pregnant or immunocompromised, no. IIRC roughly 70% of adults in developed nations and 100% elsewhere have CMV.

[+] Erratic6576|2 years ago|reply
Yeah. I can no longer stand the smell of smoke no matter how far away. My wife hates me because we can’t sit on terraces to eat and drink next to smokers and traffic smoke
[+] dingnuts|2 years ago|reply
Where do you live that smoking is allowed and common in shared outdoor spaces, and where catalytic converters aren't common?
[+] DoreenMichele|2 years ago|reply
These findings... for the first time reveal a long-term memory of the effects of smoking on immunity...

It also talks about epigenetics, which is a sort of hand wavy concept that what we do to our bodies can impact genetic expression and even genetic inheritance but it's kind of the "radiation" of 1950s sci fi. Spiderman was bit by a radioactive spider and got magic powers cuz ...don't ask. Radiation, okay? Moving on.

I am certain that everything we do in life has epigenetic impacts and our lifestyle interacts with gene expression. I think of it a bit like vernacular architecture. You draw a floorplan for a two bedroom home and are limited to local resources, the exact details look different depending on weather it's an adobe house or a log cabin.

That's a useful metaphor but it's not really hard science and at this date epigenetics is kind of a vague concept without really pinning down specific causes in most cases.

The body doesn't "remember." It remains impaired in part because we don't really understand how to fully clear these chemicals from the body. It may also remain impaired because these chemicals altered something which will remain altered after the chemicals are cleared but at this point epigenetics doesn't seem to actually identify those details.

Maybe someday it will. But not today.

[+] MichaelRo|2 years ago|reply
Well, I tried to pick up smoking but never could. I reckoned have something to indulge into besides alcohol, plus smokers seem to enjoy it without the dreadful withdrawal effects of the former (hangovers that is).

But cigarettes just don't do nothing for me. I do get nauseous and if I insist, sick. But nothing enjoyable, not along what I came to expect from alcohol and caffeine.

On the other hand smoking prevents Parkinson's so not all bad habits are all evil.

[+] lr4444lr|2 years ago|reply
So, I have to ask: is it the nicotine, or the products of combustion? Because a lot of people are smoking cannabis, and I'm wondering how many of the harms of long term cigarette use will also manifest in them.
[+] coolThingsFirst|2 years ago|reply
I seriously can’t understand how Germany developed nation has so many smokers.
[+] bick_nyers|2 years ago|reply
As someone who is currently driving his Grandma to daily radiation treatment for throat cancer (yes she smokes before and after every treatment), I highly recommend that you don't smoke, or at the very least don't develop a habit.

Losing your voice, COPD, the risk of dying from asphyxiation, it's a very scary way to go.

[+] seeg|2 years ago|reply
I heard that smoke rooms in hotels are one of the cleanest places you can find because of all the filtering, provided no one is smoking atm.
[+] sg47|2 years ago|reply
Does that include hookah?
[+] officeplant|2 years ago|reply
Just because it smells nicer and we pretend water filtration helps, doesn't make it heathier. Hookah is often worse because a long Hookah session can have more nicotine than a pack of cigarettes.
[+] falseprofit|2 years ago|reply
I imagine the study included it in the data but did not differentiate it, so you can’t make a specific deduction about it.

If anyone actually has details please correct me.

[+] temp0826|2 years ago|reply
Pretty sure an average hookah session is the equivalent to 1-2 packs of cigarettes.