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House cleaners find two of the first desktop PCs in random boxes

113 points| rbanffy | 2 years ago |tomshardware.com | reply

61 comments

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[+] Tor3|2 years ago|reply
That this 8008 computer from 1972 should have 16KB of RAM sounds unlikely. I haven't been able to find any real info stating this - still, the headline on tomshardware says "16KB". That's very hard to believe. Static RAM of that size would have been extremely expensive at the time, the much much later Altair 8800 didn't get past 4KB without a dynamic RAM board (which was also very unreliable). The Q1/Lite, a Z80-based computer from 1974 (correction - 1977!) - well, that I can kind of believe.

I wonder if the article author is confusing the theoretical max memory address space of the 8008 (which is 16KB) with actual RAM size of the 1972 model Q1?

[+] rsynnott|2 years ago|reply
From the actual article:

> They use the Intel 8008 CPU, an 8-bit CPU capable of processing a whopping sixteen kilobytes of memory

Which is correct. As you say, highly unlikely that the computers had that much, though.

I'm not sure how Tom's Hardware does things, but it's well-known in the _newspaper_ industry that the headlines aren't written by the person who writes the article, and misinterpretation happens from time to time. I suspect whoever wrote the headline just got confused, here.

Of course, because of the plague of LLMs which now lies over the land, anyone trying to find out how much RAM such a machine had in 2050 will be confidently, incorrectly told 16kB by GPT47, even though it's obviously wrong, due to this headline...

[+] actionfromafar|2 years ago|reply
The headline is probably wrong, the article text just says "capable of" 16 kilobyte. I also think it's unlikely it had 16 installed. On the other hand, doesn't the screen look like a flatscreen, not a CRT? So the screen itself was probably very expensive in itself. (Probably plasma screen?)

Edit:

Look at the image and the bank of 3 * 8 socketed chips:

https://www.peel.dk/Q1/img/SN615-03.jpg

If these are the Intel 2102 [1] or something similar, then it would have 3 kilobytes of SRAM.

1: https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Intel_2102

Edit 2: the computer in the picture is another model, ignore me.

[+] tdeck|2 years ago|reply
This thing was released after the datapoint 2200, which essentially has an 8008 made of discrete TTL chips.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datapoint_2200

The 2200 type 2 (1972) was indeed expandable to 16k. Yes it cost $14,000, but you could buy it. Remember: this was an expensive piece of business equipment, the Altair was a cheap (for the time) kit for hobbyists. Companies buying these machines were choosing between them and a minicomputer like the PDP/11 which cost $20,000.

[+] gumby|2 years ago|reply
14 year old me in 1978 had a whopping 4K of RAM in my S-100 system (a whole card full of 2102s) and I couldn't have had that much without my parents helping me out.

A full 16K six years before seems unlikely, especially given the size of programs back then.

[+] reacweb|2 years ago|reply
maybe a confusion because 16 kilo bits is 2 kilo bytes.
[+] vachi|2 years ago|reply
I worked for Daniel Alroy the founder of Q1. https://www.peel.dk/Q1/ I have never seen one in real life yet. He told me lot of stories, especially how he got into a fight with Intel. He had set out to prove a point that a cheaper simpler machine can be made.
[+] djbaskin|2 years ago|reply
omg hey vachi it's Danielle, your former post-Q1 coworker :)

I've also been trying to track down a Q1 FOR YEARS and a friend sent me this article.

Daniel Alroy would be so thrilled about this coverage. To this day, I still haven't visited the Computer History Museum in San Jose, out of respect for his grudge with Intel. (They don't include Q1 in its history.)

[+] ChrisArchitect|2 years ago|reply
Some more close-ups of the Q1 etc in this video and pics they've posted (all I could find):

https://twitter.com/KingstonUni/status/1757444509577662951

https://twitter.com/KingstonUni/status/1757404905176695186

[+] rbanffy|2 years ago|reply
Weird... It looks the screen is too flat (and shallow) for a CRT. I'd assume it's a panel with LED alphanumeric cells.
[+] 15457345234|2 years ago|reply
Could you kindly rehost those on imgur for people that don't want to play in walled gardens?
[+] tetris11|2 years ago|reply
Random dragons hoarding gold seems to be once again the best failsafe for preserving humanity's accomplishments, said no one ever.
[+] jaredhallen|2 years ago|reply
Seems to be how these were preserved thus far.
[+] dtagames|2 years ago|reply
This might be the first Intel desktop PC, but it's not the first desktop computer. That would be the HP9100A from 1968.

I agree more pictures would have been nice. It looks like a cool piece of hardware!

[+] temporallobe|2 years ago|reply
Would have been nice to see more than one vague photo of the actual units.
[+] everyone|2 years ago|reply
So many articles have terrible / gibberish writing. I can't help thinking, is this AI? Eg. In this article, right out of the gate there are two...

..

"They are now on display at Kingston University in Surrey, England, but only for the rest of February 17th."

Are they saying that the machines are available on one day only? February 17th, The day the article was published? If so, that's a very strange way to say that.

..

"As far as what to expect, don't expect too much— these are the first desktop PCs created with a fully integrated single-chip microprocessor, including the CPU."

I am just guessing what they mean here. Do they mean... "the first desktop PCs created with a fully integrated single-chip microprocessor, which includes the CPU" ??

..

ps. I was using Miro recently and a popup appeared asking should the AI rewrite the text I wrote "for clarity" .. I just laughed, clarity is certainly not an LLM's strong suit.

But I reckon these tools are everywhere and they are being used everywhere.

[+] macrolime|2 years ago|reply
What's up with alpha shift, 3rd shift and 4th shift?
[+] fatkam|2 years ago|reply
reminds me of the phones with slide out keyboard that I really miss and that the main thing that I hate about laptops is their keyboard