top | item 39450067

(no title)

leemailll | 2 years ago

"looking to mass produce state-of-the art 2 nanometer logic chips in 2027 from an initial starting point of zero"

They have bold goals

discuss

order

porphyra|2 years ago

Historically, Canon and Nikon were some of the leading suppliers of photolithography equipment. However they seem to have missed the boat on EUV tech. Recently Canon is trying to make a comeback [1].

[1] https://arstechnica.com/reviews/2024/01/canon-plans-to-disru...

formerly_proven|2 years ago

ASML productivized (in a two decade process with many partners) foundational research licensed from US national labs, research which the Japanese (Nikon & Canon) were barred from licensing due to their then-dominant position. Though it seems unlikely to me that Canon would've gone for it, considering that they never got into ArF lithography.

baq|2 years ago

ASML took 20 years… even if they can do it twice as fast (not impossible but I have my reservations) it still means a fab is operational in about 2035-2040… better late than never I guess?

throw0101c|2 years ago

> However they seem to have missed the boat on EUV tech.

Licensing:

> To address the challenge of EUV lithography, researchers at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, and Sandia National Laboratories were funded in the 1990s to perform basic research into the technical obstacles. The results of this successful effort were disseminated via a public/private partnership Cooperative R&D Agreement (CRADA) with the invention and rights wholly owned by the US government, but licensed and distributed under approval by DOE and Congress.[8] The CRADA consisted of a consortium of private companies and the Labs, manifested as an entity called the Extreme Ultraviolet Limited Liability Company (EUV LLC).[9]

> Intel, Canon, and Nikon (leaders in the field at the time), as well as the Dutch company ASML and Silicon Valley Group (SVG) all sought licensing. Congress denied the Japanese companies the necessary permission as they were perceived as strong technical competitors at the time, and should not benefit from taxpayer-funded research at the expense of American companies.[10] In 2001 SVG was acquired by ASML, leaving ASML as the sole benefactor of the critical technology.[11]

[…]

> This made the once small company ASML the world leader in the production of scanners and monopolist in this cutting edge technology and resulted in a record turnover of 18.6 billion € in 2021, dwarfing their competitors Canon and Nikon who were denied IP access. […]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_ultraviolet_lithograph...

fomine3|2 years ago

Rapidus buys ASML machines, because it's the only available option and developing national machine isn't their focus

sexy_seedbox|2 years ago

Both Canon and Nikon were sleeping at the wheel when GoPro and DJI both dominated the action/sports camera and drone business.

Night_Thastus|2 years ago

Hahahahaha...

Oh god, they're serious.

To catch up to TSMC would take decades at this point, dumping endless money into it.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it absolutely cannot be done in 3 years.

senectus1|2 years ago

of all the countries in the world capable of pulling something like that off. Japan is right up there.

pas|2 years ago

Unfortunately very unlikely. What's more probable is they'll end up with someone taking the blame / escaping the madness through suicide because the miracle was not delivered on time. I'm rooting for them, but without even a working sub-10nm fab there ... well, it's the uphill battle of uphill battles. Are they willing to ask for outside guidance and accept it? Getting training from IBM seems like getting training from an old gas station clerk who used to work in the big fancy factory. (And TSMC is already building fabs, but that just means they will compete with them for labor, and those 100 veterans will just go and work there.)

Luring legacy operations, sure, why not, but ... it doesn't make much sense. It's race to the bottom. If they want to do geopolitically useful thing they should put down their feet and spend on defense of Taiwan.

"If chip supplies from Taiwan halt, ..." yes, economies will collapse. Chips will be the least of our problems. Unless they mean chips for smart bombs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabricat...

Detrytus|2 years ago

In 2027 "2 nanometer" will be like 2 generations behind the state of the art... At least if you believe current Intel and TSMC roadmaps.