Really wish this existed in the 90's when my family moved to the US from eastern europe. A non-exhaustive list of scams my parents fell for:
- Investing money in a friend's company - this was the most painful as it was perpetuated by our family members who lived here for a while that we trusted
- Rainbow vacuum cleaner
- Aqualife water filter
- Hiring someone to take us to another city to buy a car to "help get a good deal" - turned out he was working for the seller, and it was not a good deal at all
- A summer job for me selling Vector cutlery
Unfortunately it's easy to scam new immigrants, this happened for hundred years and still happening now.
> - Investing money in a friend's company - this was the most painful as it was perpetuated by our family members who lived here for a while that we trusted
I don't know your parents' experience, of course, but this method of losing money is one of the most popular for everyone. I once saw an expert who provides finanical education to new professional atheletes (known for being bankrupt soon after retirement despite millions in income). Loans to family/friends' businesses was top of their list of no-no's.
On the other hand, many successful businesses have started that way. Many more legitimate but failed efforts also have begun that way. Not everyone has access to VC capital, personal wealth, or a bank loan.
Most people could probably benefit from someone helping them navigate the car buying process. For a $500 I bet I could talk most buyers through the right lease, payment setup and financing and pre negotiate a decent deal in one of the 3-4 neighboring states and setup an inspection at a good mechanics if buying used. I bet I could bring 1-2k of value into that transaction. If I was doing it as my day job I could probably squeeze out 2-3k or help them tap the auction market directly.
There was a wave of this in 90s and 00s but in Poland. In my eyes parents signed a loan for "Mercedes of vaccum cleaners" for an amount of over 2k USD. Average salary back then was something below 700 USD. Fuck this American scammers. Eat shit and bankrupt Rainbow. Rest of the above were occuring as well. People were looking at the west with hope and sympathy, while the west came over with smiling brutal extortionist rape fest.
>"Really wish this existed in the 90's when my family moved to the US from eastern europe."
I moved to Canada from USSR in the beginning of 90s. The scams were plentiful and unexpected. Lucky for me I've followed that golden rule - if it sounds too good then fuck it. Saved me from lot of troubles. Some of my friends were not so lucky.
Every child, as part of his education, should be required to play some MMO with in-game trading, where noobs are routinely taken advantage of, where scams and betrayals abound, as a preparation for real life.
Isn't Vector just a weird MLM sales channel for Cutco? It is unlikely anyone will make money off it, but from what I understand it is not impossible. You just won't make money selling knives at least.
Why is that one a scam? We've had one now for over 20 years, my mum still uses it almost daily, as far as I can tell it's built like a tank and will outlast all of us lol.
Rainbow is worth the money in my opinion. I think the one in my family is at least 20 years old, and it's way better than any other because of the mixing-dust-with-water thing. I've used many vacuum cleaners, including some industrial-grade ones, and none of them can hold a candle to Rainbow. Not needing any consumables like paper bags is a nice bonus.
Reminds me, tourists as well. I often traveled to a certain location abroad, and never had trouble with taxis etc. Later, two older female relatives accompanied me on a trip, and the first taxi we went on the driver tried two scams on us!
This wasn't for immigrants. This was for a subset of immigrants from rural areas. This manual could be equally applicable to a German farmer heading into Berlin for the first time. America had no corner on the scam market. Certainly Paris or London was home to scams over and above anything the US had to offer.
I would love a better understanding of modern scams and crime in general.
Like what does "money laundering" look like on the ground, how would I know if someone around me was trying to do that?
I've had some random Amazon items show up addressed to me, but I didn't order them, and I think that was part of a scam, but I never fully got my head around how it works.
I hear about various "work from home" jobs actually being scams, but what's going on there? Not just scamming the workers out of their personal money, I mean, like using the workers as the arms and legs of a larger criminal enterprise. What's that all about?
I would watch a show on this, if it had better-than-mythbusters quality of explanations, think more like Connections or Newton's apple.
Every time that I or a friend has ended up in an even mildly not-everyday financial situation there was IMMEDIATELY a scam waiting there.
Trading in a car? Last-minute they discount the trade-in value due to damage and hope you won't realize that's already counted in the KBB value.
Car's making a weird noise? The mechanic wants to replace your struts for 1800$ even though the sound is just from the brakes being worn down.
Inherited money in a trust? The trust manager calls you to "discuss your plans" and get you to let them manage the money without your ever seeing it.
Miss paying taxes in a state because you thought you didn't owe them anything because you didn't actually live there? I'm still getting fake letters that try to scare me into calling them even though the bill was cleared up. years ago.
That's just off the top of my head. I swear sometimes it seems like this whole country is build on scams. It's fucking depressing.
> I hear about various "work from home" jobs actually being scams, but what's going on there?
There's a lot of variants, but a couple of the most common ones are:
1) "Welcome to ScamCo! Here's a check for $X to help you pay for these work supplies, send us back the extra after you're done." (The check bounces; the repayment of the remainder doesn't.)
2) "Welcome to ScamCo! You'll be my personal assistant, please buy me some gift cards / cryptocurrency / whatever." (The payment to cover the cost of the cards bounces; the gift cards / cryptocurrency / whatever are unrecoverable.)
3) "Welcome to ScamCo! You'll help me move money between my bank accounts." (The bank accounts are stolen; the mark is working as a money mule.)
4) "Welcome to ScamCo! You'll help us reship packages." (The packages are stolen goods.)
Here's a rule of thumb on scams: know what the risk-free rate is (in the American case, the benchmark would be 10-year U.S. Treasury note rates), and know deep in your heart that any[0] return above that bears risk.
The 10-year note currently yields a fraction above 4%, as of the last auction[1]. That means that anything that has the potential to return above that also has the potential to lose money; and generally, the more potential for higher returns, the more risk. Anybody claiming to give you a "quick, safe return" on your money is lying about at least one of the quick, safe, or return; i.e., a scam.
[0]: Very rarely, there are true arbitrage opportunities or some other situation where someone's cleverness leads to outsized risk-adjusted returns. "You" are probably not that someone.
> Like what does "money laundering" look like on the ground, how would I know if someone around me was trying to do that?
You won't. Money laundering is giving plausible reasons for the government to think illicitly gained money is actually legitimately gained.
It usually takes the form of a business. Generally speaking the more service oriented the better (You wouldn't want to explain how a restaurant can serve 1000 people with 1 grocery store run. But a laptop repair business? Pretty easy to fake a few "I uninstalled a virus from mister smith's computer".)
> I've had some random Amazon items show up addressed to me, but I didn't order them, and I think that was part of a scam, but I never fully got my head around how it works.
That one is a fun one. You generally aren't the one being scammed, someone else is. It's (probably) triangulation fraud. [1] [2] Though it could also just be a scammer checking to see if a stolen credit card will buy things.
> I hear about various "work from home" jobs actually being scams, but what's going on there?
Generally, these are MLMs. It's usually targeted at stay at home moms. It's usually "be your own boss". And usually the business model is you try to recruit people to sell the products you are ostensibly supposed to be selling. Basically a pyramid scheme but legal because there's a product in the mix (really dumb that it's legal).
How do I teach a young person about to travel the world alone as a new adult the scams like bump-and-rob.. the pick pockets in new orleans and the ones that 'tell you where your shoes are from'..
the ball and cups people in NY, the purse snatchers watching from the alleys..
There are so many scams and criminal things I've seen over the years (and I am sure many more I do not know) - how to prepare people for predators that are waiting for the noobs in the cities..
the dating app free dinner people and the dating app drug and rob common in Columbia these days..
/random quick thoughts.
We need a compendium and video to show some things they should be aware of and looking for instead of staring up at the pretty new lights or what not.
On the ground, money laundering looks a lot like embezzlement, because it's basically the opposite: instead of trying to divert money away from a business and into somewhere it shouldn't be (their bank account), they're trying to take money from somewhere it shouldn't be (say, a shipping container full of cash) and putting it into a legitimate business.
This works best with a variably high volume, cash-based, low-variable cost business. Variably high volume, because the more legitimate cash flow you have, the harder it is to notice some level of illegitimate cash flow, and the variability makes it much harder for someone (law enforcement) to notice that you're consistently making more money than you have business for. Cash based is obvious, you have cash you need to legitimize. Low variable costs eliminate another way law enforcement could notice you, if your variable costs don't match your revenue (a restaurant that only buys a couple lbs of butter a month shouldn't be making thousands of meals).
> I hear about various "work from home" jobs actually being scams, but what's going on there? Not just scamming the workers out of their personal money
Often the scam here is that the workers have to pay for their own training, pay the company for supplies, whatever... And then just the work never materializes.
"Once you've done the training we'll set you up with clients" and then ooops, there's just no clients available anymore sorry.
The random Amazon items are probably the "brushing" scam[0] which I guess is about using stolen payment to generate "verified purchases" for fake reviews.
I've had some random Amazon items show up addressed to me, but I didn't order them, and I think that was part of a scam, but I never fully got my head around how it works.
These are Amazon shops in China that don't want to say they're in China so they send returns to other US customers. I got sandals this way with a print out saying "return them to this address".
The podcast Darknet Diaries in general is a little like that. It explains a lot of these, often by inviting the criminals themselves. It's fascinating.
A lot of scams work on greed (like the betting tipster scam) or desperation (like the bail scam) to get people to lower their guards. Offering somebody $100,000 most people will immediately realise it's a scam, but a $50,000 job sounds more reasonable. The job "interview" builds the relationship and trust, then the actual scam comes out.
> I hear about various "work from home" jobs actually being scams, but what's going on there?
Many merchants won't ship overseas due to fraud, costs, etc. In this scam, the fraudsters purchase something with stolen payment, ship to you, and then have you re-ship to them or whoever they've resold it to. Often at your expense which they promise to reimburse.
If the merchant realizes they're fraudulent orders, they may block you as a fraudulent customer blocking your address in back office fulfillment services. Now you have trouble buying your own things.
If investigators look into it, they come to you. Since shipments are going over state lines, it could turn into Federal trouble.
TBH Many legit services funded from taxes, contributions, and insurances feel like scam. Many jobs fell like scam. Scammers focused on profit extraction exploit the decreased level of alertness. Unfortunately, random "friendly stranger" is almost always scammer especially if pulling out anyone's wallet is involved.
People defend tolerance and fight prejudice against Gypsies, until they meet them in real life. More sophisticated one is Polish, Slovakian, and Romanian Gypsies are renting out social housing they receive in UK.
Something I'm learning from reading the comments is that the culture has moved in what it calls a "scam"
In my mind, and from my background, a scam is a pretty brutal outright fraud. You buy a toaster and they send you a box of bricks.
From the top comment:
- Rainbow vacuum cleaner (I would say it is not a scam, just an overpriced and underwhelming product)
- Aqualife water filter (Similarly I would just call this an overpriced product)
- Hiring someone to take us to another city to buy a car to "help get a good deal" - turned out he was working for the seller, and it was not a good deal at all. (Depending on details, this actually does sound like a scam, though a small one. The scam part is where they hired the intermediary, other than that it's just abusive sales)
- A summer job for me selling Vector cutlery (not a scam, It's a crap job for sure, and MLM for sure, but they do in fact pay you for what you sell. I sold cutco and I made a little money)
Some others:
Trading in a car? Last-minute they discount the trade-in value due to damage and hope you won't realize that's already counted in the KBB value. (arguably a scam, but mostly I would just call that aggressive hagling)
Car's making a weird noise? The mechanic wants to replace your struts for 1800$ even though the sound is just from the brakes being worn down. (Might be a scam, but it also might just be a mechanic who's not great at their job. I have blown many thousand dollars in billable hours for my clients by misdiagnosing software issues before. Sometimes the people we hire just fuck up and that's part of life. If you as the client are really out of your territory then you are more prone to hiring someone incompetent)
Inherited money in a trust? The trust manager calls you to "discuss your plans" and get you to let them manage the money without you ever seeing it. (Again, conceivably a scam, but also it's a little tricky because the trust working just right would look similar. This feels a lot more the mechanic example where it's not so much a scam as you are hiring someone who isn't very good)
Miss paying taxes in a state because you thought you didn't owe them anything because you didn't actually live there? I'm still getting fake letters that try to scare me into calling them even though the bill was cleared up. years ago. (Ok, this one sounds like it's pretty much a scam)
And then the infamous "investing in a Friend and Family business" and never getting the money back.
I have no doubt that this is sometimes a scam... but I'm an angel investor and also do quite a bit of F&F investments and I can say for sure: I don't think I have ever been scammed, and the vast majority fail burn the capital and show no positive return. That doesn't make it a scam! Running a business is hard! I think we already know this on HackerNews. Just because someone bets and looses doesn't mean they got scammed!
>The chapter titled “The Con of the Matchmaker” describes how American con artists published their own newspapers, filled with ads for women looking for husbands. Anyone who answered such an ad would have their finances scrutinized and then wrested from them by a so-called marriage broker, with no actual wife at the end of the ordeal.
I JUST RECOVERED MY SCAMMED BITCOIN. It's the first time since 4 months I contacted honest people through internet, I lost money with scam crypto company, I contacted 3 recovery companies, it turned all of them are scammers, Until I contacted [email protected], I sent them all information's about the scam company and After giving them the information they needed from me, It took them only 24 to refund my 150,000 USD back to me. I wrote this review, to thank this company for their honesty and those out there in need of help.
[+] [-] brolumir|2 years ago|reply
- Investing money in a friend's company - this was the most painful as it was perpetuated by our family members who lived here for a while that we trusted
- Rainbow vacuum cleaner
- Aqualife water filter
- Hiring someone to take us to another city to buy a car to "help get a good deal" - turned out he was working for the seller, and it was not a good deal at all
- A summer job for me selling Vector cutlery
Unfortunately it's easy to scam new immigrants, this happened for hundred years and still happening now.
[+] [-] wolverine876|2 years ago|reply
I don't know your parents' experience, of course, but this method of losing money is one of the most popular for everyone. I once saw an expert who provides finanical education to new professional atheletes (known for being bankrupt soon after retirement despite millions in income). Loans to family/friends' businesses was top of their list of no-no's.
On the other hand, many successful businesses have started that way. Many more legitimate but failed efforts also have begun that way. Not everyone has access to VC capital, personal wealth, or a bank loan.
[+] [-] nothercastle|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bombcar|2 years ago|reply
And some people swear by the Rainbows because of the water feature.
[+] [-] lifestyleguru|2 years ago|reply
There was a wave of this in 90s and 00s but in Poland. In my eyes parents signed a loan for "Mercedes of vaccum cleaners" for an amount of over 2k USD. Average salary back then was something below 700 USD. Fuck this American scammers. Eat shit and bankrupt Rainbow. Rest of the above were occuring as well. People were looking at the west with hope and sympathy, while the west came over with smiling brutal extortionist rape fest.
[+] [-] FpUser|2 years ago|reply
I moved to Canada from USSR in the beginning of 90s. The scams were plentiful and unexpected. Lucky for me I've followed that golden rule - if it sounds too good then fuck it. Saved me from lot of troubles. Some of my friends were not so lucky.
[+] [-] EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sidewndr46|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gambiting|2 years ago|reply
Why is that one a scam? We've had one now for over 20 years, my mum still uses it almost daily, as far as I can tell it's built like a tank and will outlast all of us lol.
[+] [-] forgotmypw17|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mixmastamyk|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mandelbrotwurst|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thecleaner|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sandworm101|2 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cour_des_miracles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Stock_Exchange_Fraud_of_... (People dressed up as French soldiers to convince everyone in London that Napoleon was dead.)
And don't forget Scotland's history-altering national scam:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme
[+] [-] b112|2 years ago|reply
But go ahead, make fun and light of a national disaster that saw people starve, die, and even an entire nation lose their independance.
[+] [-] myself248|2 years ago|reply
Like what does "money laundering" look like on the ground, how would I know if someone around me was trying to do that?
I've had some random Amazon items show up addressed to me, but I didn't order them, and I think that was part of a scam, but I never fully got my head around how it works.
I hear about various "work from home" jobs actually being scams, but what's going on there? Not just scamming the workers out of their personal money, I mean, like using the workers as the arms and legs of a larger criminal enterprise. What's that all about?
I would watch a show on this, if it had better-than-mythbusters quality of explanations, think more like Connections or Newton's apple.
[+] [-] ajkjk|2 years ago|reply
Trading in a car? Last-minute they discount the trade-in value due to damage and hope you won't realize that's already counted in the KBB value.
Car's making a weird noise? The mechanic wants to replace your struts for 1800$ even though the sound is just from the brakes being worn down.
Inherited money in a trust? The trust manager calls you to "discuss your plans" and get you to let them manage the money without your ever seeing it.
Miss paying taxes in a state because you thought you didn't owe them anything because you didn't actually live there? I'm still getting fake letters that try to scare me into calling them even though the bill was cleared up. years ago.
That's just off the top of my head. I swear sometimes it seems like this whole country is build on scams. It's fucking depressing.
[+] [-] duskwuff|2 years ago|reply
There's a lot of variants, but a couple of the most common ones are:
1) "Welcome to ScamCo! Here's a check for $X to help you pay for these work supplies, send us back the extra after you're done." (The check bounces; the repayment of the remainder doesn't.)
2) "Welcome to ScamCo! You'll be my personal assistant, please buy me some gift cards / cryptocurrency / whatever." (The payment to cover the cost of the cards bounces; the gift cards / cryptocurrency / whatever are unrecoverable.)
3) "Welcome to ScamCo! You'll help me move money between my bank accounts." (The bank accounts are stolen; the mark is working as a money mule.)
4) "Welcome to ScamCo! You'll help us reship packages." (The packages are stolen goods.)
[+] [-] gottorf|2 years ago|reply
The 10-year note currently yields a fraction above 4%, as of the last auction[1]. That means that anything that has the potential to return above that also has the potential to lose money; and generally, the more potential for higher returns, the more risk. Anybody claiming to give you a "quick, safe return" on your money is lying about at least one of the quick, safe, or return; i.e., a scam.
[0]: Very rarely, there are true arbitrage opportunities or some other situation where someone's cleverness leads to outsized risk-adjusted returns. "You" are probably not that someone.
[1]: https://treasurydirect.gov/instit/annceresult/press/preanre/...
[+] [-] cogman10|2 years ago|reply
You won't. Money laundering is giving plausible reasons for the government to think illicitly gained money is actually legitimately gained.
It usually takes the form of a business. Generally speaking the more service oriented the better (You wouldn't want to explain how a restaurant can serve 1000 people with 1 grocery store run. But a laptop repair business? Pretty easy to fake a few "I uninstalled a virus from mister smith's computer".)
> I've had some random Amazon items show up addressed to me, but I didn't order them, and I think that was part of a scam, but I never fully got my head around how it works.
That one is a fun one. You generally aren't the one being scammed, someone else is. It's (probably) triangulation fraud. [1] [2] Though it could also just be a scammer checking to see if a stolen credit card will buy things.
> I hear about various "work from home" jobs actually being scams, but what's going on there?
Generally, these are MLMs. It's usually targeted at stay at home moms. It's usually "be your own boss". And usually the business model is you try to recruit people to sell the products you are ostensibly supposed to be selling. Basically a pyramid scheme but legal because there's a product in the mix (really dumb that it's legal).
[1] https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1119606931
[2] https://chargebacks911.com/triangulation-fraud/
[+] [-] stevenicr|2 years ago|reply
How do I teach a young person about to travel the world alone as a new adult the scams like bump-and-rob.. the pick pockets in new orleans and the ones that 'tell you where your shoes are from'..
the ball and cups people in NY, the purse snatchers watching from the alleys..
There are so many scams and criminal things I've seen over the years (and I am sure many more I do not know) - how to prepare people for predators that are waiting for the noobs in the cities..
the dating app free dinner people and the dating app drug and rob common in Columbia these days..
/random quick thoughts.
We need a compendium and video to show some things they should be aware of and looking for instead of staring up at the pretty new lights or what not.
[+] [-] OkayPhysicist|2 years ago|reply
This works best with a variably high volume, cash-based, low-variable cost business. Variably high volume, because the more legitimate cash flow you have, the harder it is to notice some level of illegitimate cash flow, and the variability makes it much harder for someone (law enforcement) to notice that you're consistently making more money than you have business for. Cash based is obvious, you have cash you need to legitimize. Low variable costs eliminate another way law enforcement could notice you, if your variable costs don't match your revenue (a restaurant that only buys a couple lbs of butter a month shouldn't be making thousands of meals).
[+] [-] bluefirebrand|2 years ago|reply
Often the scam here is that the workers have to pay for their own training, pay the company for supplies, whatever... And then just the work never materializes.
"Once you've done the training we'll set you up with clients" and then ooops, there's just no clients available anymore sorry.
[+] [-] c22|2 years ago|reply
[0]: https://www.uspis.gov/news/scam-article/brushing-scam
[+] [-] joe_the_user|2 years ago|reply
These are Amazon shops in China that don't want to say they're in China so they send returns to other US customers. I got sandals this way with a print out saying "return them to this address".
[+] [-] nicbou|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lozenge|2 years ago|reply
Bail scam: https://www.countrymeadows.com/news/story-bank/frantic-call-...
[+] [-] LAC-Tech|2 years ago|reply
Restaurants in high rent areas offering suspiciously cheap food with relatively few customers.
They are all over NZ. People are so naiive about what they are.
[+] [-] caseysoftware|2 years ago|reply
Many merchants won't ship overseas due to fraud, costs, etc. In this scam, the fraudsters purchase something with stolen payment, ship to you, and then have you re-ship to them or whoever they've resold it to. Often at your expense which they promise to reimburse.
If the merchant realizes they're fraudulent orders, they may block you as a fraudulent customer blocking your address in back office fulfillment services. Now you have trouble buying your own things.
If investigators look into it, they come to you. Since shipments are going over state lines, it could turn into Federal trouble.
And you never get reimbursed for shipping.
[+] [-] lifestyleguru|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MichaelRo|2 years ago|reply
- My Credit Cards Don’t Work Scam
- Pathetic Person Scam
- Women with Babies Scam
- Swarming Scam
- Friendship Bracelets Scam
- Survey Scam
- Gold Ring Scam
- Baggage Scam
- Subway Begging Scam
- Blocking Scam
[+] [-] lifestyleguru|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] readthenotes1|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] db48x|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] screenoridesagb|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] racl101|2 years ago|reply
When you put things in single quotes they tend to negate the meaning.
[+] [-] giblfiz|2 years ago|reply
In my mind, and from my background, a scam is a pretty brutal outright fraud. You buy a toaster and they send you a box of bricks.
From the top comment: - Rainbow vacuum cleaner (I would say it is not a scam, just an overpriced and underwhelming product)
- Aqualife water filter (Similarly I would just call this an overpriced product)
- Hiring someone to take us to another city to buy a car to "help get a good deal" - turned out he was working for the seller, and it was not a good deal at all. (Depending on details, this actually does sound like a scam, though a small one. The scam part is where they hired the intermediary, other than that it's just abusive sales)
- A summer job for me selling Vector cutlery (not a scam, It's a crap job for sure, and MLM for sure, but they do in fact pay you for what you sell. I sold cutco and I made a little money)
Some others:
Trading in a car? Last-minute they discount the trade-in value due to damage and hope you won't realize that's already counted in the KBB value. (arguably a scam, but mostly I would just call that aggressive hagling)
Car's making a weird noise? The mechanic wants to replace your struts for 1800$ even though the sound is just from the brakes being worn down. (Might be a scam, but it also might just be a mechanic who's not great at their job. I have blown many thousand dollars in billable hours for my clients by misdiagnosing software issues before. Sometimes the people we hire just fuck up and that's part of life. If you as the client are really out of your territory then you are more prone to hiring someone incompetent)
Inherited money in a trust? The trust manager calls you to "discuss your plans" and get you to let them manage the money without you ever seeing it. (Again, conceivably a scam, but also it's a little tricky because the trust working just right would look similar. This feels a lot more the mechanic example where it's not so much a scam as you are hiring someone who isn't very good)
Miss paying taxes in a state because you thought you didn't owe them anything because you didn't actually live there? I'm still getting fake letters that try to scare me into calling them even though the bill was cleared up. years ago. (Ok, this one sounds like it's pretty much a scam)
And then the infamous "investing in a Friend and Family business" and never getting the money back. I have no doubt that this is sometimes a scam... but I'm an angel investor and also do quite a bit of F&F investments and I can say for sure: I don't think I have ever been scammed, and the vast majority fail burn the capital and show no positive return. That doesn't make it a scam! Running a business is hard! I think we already know this on HackerNews. Just because someone bets and looses doesn't mean they got scammed!
[+] [-] snickerbockers|2 years ago|reply
Huh, i suppose some things never change.
[+] [-] jMESSIES|2 years ago|reply
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