[dxhdr]

That's some hallucinated nonsense.

Putin gave an "explicit warning that Russia perceived NATO's eastward expansion as a threat to its national security" as early as 2007 in his Munich speech [0]. The Russo-Ukrainian war began in 2014 with the ouster of Yanukovych, who was pro-Russia and opposed closer ties with the EU [1]. Zelensky became president in 2019 and initially promised to end the Russo-Ukranian war, but instead continued to pursue NATO protection and in August 2021 "urged NATO members to speed up Ukraine's request for membership" [2]. Russia escalated the Russo-Ukrainian war and invaded Ukraine for a second time in February 2022 [3].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Munich_speech_of_Vladimir...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volodymyr_Zelenskyy

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

[jeffdn]

Is it a surprise to you that all of the countries that have historically been imperial subjects of Russia seek protection from the possibility of that eventuality coming to pass again? Is it surprising after Georgia in 2008 and Crimea/Donbas in 2014 that Ukraine would want some assurance of security and independence for the remainder of their country?

[datavirtue]

I see that you bought into it.

[khokhol]

Whereas the nonsense you're providing us here is not hallucinated (by you), but rather cut-and-pasted from the usual pro-Russian sources.

Putin gave an "explicit warning that Russia perceived NATO's eastward expansion as a threat to its national security" as early as 2007 in his Munich speech.

And as a result (in combination with other factors) Ukraine's NATO aspirations were effectively halted by 2009. Simply put - some hawks in the U.S. wanted it, but it never got traction in Europe - not even after the initial invasion in 2014. In other words - in regard to the NATO-Ukraine question Putin had by that time already achieved a successful, non-violent containment strategy. But ultimately he opted for the full-scale invasion in 2022 anyway.

Why? Because it was never his real reason in the first place.

The Russo-Ukrainian war began in 2014 with the ouster of Yanukovych, who was pro-Russia and opposed closer ties with the EU.

First, it wasn't an "ouster" - he fled to escape likely imminent charges of corruption and complicity in murder. Second - if you really believe that whatever happens in the internal politics of one country is a "reason for", or can "provoke" another country into launching a full-scale invasion -- then I don't know what to tell you.

[geraldhh]

> if you really believe that whatever happens in the internal politics of one country is a "reason for", or can "provoke" another country into launching a full-scale invasion -- then I don't know what to tell you.

what do you mean? internal politics is just a label and the issue will most certainly not be contained by a border.

[dxhdr]

> in regard to the NATO-Ukraine question Putin had by that time already achieved a successful, non-violent containment strategy. But ultimately he opted for the full-scale invasion in 2022 anyway.

Beginning in 2019, Ukraine went full-press on seeking NATO membership. In fact, they "voted 334 to 17 to amend the constitution to state Ukraine's strategic objectives as joining the European Union and NATO" [0]. Again, Ukraine went as far as amending their constitution to codify the goal of joining the EU and NATO.

Now, was that Putin's "real" motive for the 2022 invasion? Who knows, I'm sure there are a number of reasons. Putin frankly denied Ukraine's right to exist. But regardless, it is very clear that his rhetoric over the past 17 years, and subsequent actions, are at least consistent with the NATO issue.

> First, it wasn't an "ouster" - he fled to escape likely imminent charges of corruption and complicity in murder.

There was a revolution in Ukraine in 2014 and he was overthrown. On February 22, 2014 the "Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office by 328 to 0" [1]. He fled that evening. I have no doubt corruption and any number of other things led to the revolution. Regardless, he was very anti-EU and pro-Russia and his removal from office directly led to the 2014 Crimea invasion and the start of the Russo-Ukrainian war. In fact, Russia began organizing troops outside of Ukraine the very same day Yanukovych was voted out and the invasion began 5 days after his removal [2].

> Second - if you really believe that whatever happens in the internal politics of one country is a "reason for", or can "provoke" another country into launching a full-scale invasion -- then I don't know what to tell you.

If one country has been saying for nearly 2 decades that if another country joins NATO it means war, and then that country ratifies their constitution to seek NATO membership, and then a war happens, is it really that surprising? When the two countries are already at war over allegiances in the first place?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ukraine#2004_a...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War