I understand there are some larger compliance-related issues that need to be solved and that this seems like it's an unintended consequence of the regulatory requirements put in place to solve this.
But there are huge consequences for small business owners in requiring a physical address. I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide, because providing _any_ address for my business is a fiction. My business is where ever I am. To date, I've paid for a registered agent service in my state so I can use their address. It costs me several hundred dollars a year for the "convenience" of not listing my home address in public records, which again, would also not be accurate because my business does not exist in my home. Same with a nonprofit I'm involved with - the nonprofit exists on Zoom and in temporary space we rent for meetings and events, and we receive mail to a PO Box.
There are also further downstream implications to this kind of problem. Suddenly if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors.
Your business's primary place of business is your home (referring specifically to the parent comment, not businesses in general). That you can also carry out the business where ever you physically are does not change that basic fact from a legal or tax perspective.
Zoning compliance is not required for a home office (assuming white collar type work). Many, but not all jurisdictions require business licenses, even for home offices. This does not trigger inspections, because a business license isn't about the workplace, it's about the business itself.
EDIT/FOLLOWUP: Your "place of business" does not need to be your mailing address, because you can use a PO Box. It also doesn't need to be your address for legal service (i.e., for service of lawsuits), since most companies use a registered agent for that. At the most basic level, for a solo entrepreneur, your place of business is simply the one common location to which you have a legal right from which you do at least some of your business. In the absence of an owned or leased/subleased office or other workplace, it defaults to your residence.
> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide,
Is Stripe revealing this address to customers?
This page only says a business address must be provided, not that it will be revealed to customers.
If you have a business, you already have a business address and you're paying taxes somewhere. Why can't you use that address?
> Suddenly if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors
What country are you in? Do you have any examples of this happening, or is this just a hypothetical you came up with?
Regardless, if your business is registered and you're paying taxes then, again, there's already an address associated with it. Stripe verifying this address isn't going to send local inspectors to your home.
> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide, because providing _any_ address for my business is a fiction.
Surely you see how this is also a desirable trait for every scammer out there?
> if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors.
"this change makes it harder to violate the law" is not a compelling argument
Worth a shot if anyone can help me out / is facing the same problem.
I'm a US non-resident (from the UK) who registered a business via Stripe Atlas, and used Earth Class Mail (a Stripe Atlas partner) to setup and incorporate my company when I signed up to Stripe Atlas.
Due to the nature of my business, a large majority of payments are micro-transactions, so I spoke with a Stripe employee who kindly enabled micro-transaction pricing on my account.
Fast-forward to a few months ago, and I decide to offer a subscription service for my business at a higher price point. I was advised by a Stripe employee to set up a new Stripe account for these higher priced transactions as micro-transaction pricing wouldn't make sense, so I registered a new US Stripe account using the exact same business details as my Stripe Atlas account (using my Earth Class Mail address, EIN, etc.)
My original US Stripe Atlas account seems to have passed this new US verification fine - whereas my new US Stripe account is threatened to have payouts/payments disabled on March 12th unless I provide a physical US address, as it doesn't like the Earth Class Mail one.
I have contacted Stripe customer support who have not been helpful - if there's anyone at Stripe who can help me with this I would hugely, hugely appreciate some help.
I am in a similar situation than you, after spending quite a bit of time on this, I think there are 2 possible solution:
* The slightly hacky one: Find a virtual office in the U.S. whose address isn't flagged by Stripe + get a virtual U.S. phone number
* The proper solution: You need to transition to a UK Stripe account and provide your UK address/phone number. Even though your business is incorporated in the US what seem to matter is where you effectively do business. As long as you can provide a proof you are effectively doing business from the UK, Stripe will not have any issue with getting you a UK based Stripe account for US based corp.
This is all very weird, especially as you said, Stripe Atlas specifically encourages you go the registered agents route, only to then have the rug pulled from under your feet.
What does this mean for their partners like Stable? The only reason I used Stable was because it was part of the onboarding flow for Stripe Atlas. Is that considered a physical biz address?
FWIW my biz address doesn't have PO box in the address. It is re-used though (which I know because when I tried to register a DUNS number with Apple the first problem I ran into was another business was already registered at the same address)
They don't even really specify this in their link in the email sent, but I am getting this error when going to my dashboard now:
Invalid address. Your business address must be a valid physical address from which you conduct business and cannot be a private mailbox. Please correct the following...
So now, I have to find a new business address (either rent a place, or do a virtual office), which isn't as simple as just getting a new address. I then have to update every single account online or in person that uses it, and officially ask my state's SoS to update my biz info. There is probably other stuff I am not even thinking of in this moment as well. In addition, Stripe wants me to get a new biz address before March 13th or "payouts" will be impacted. Not processing! They are happy to use my money to make money for themselves and hold it like they have done to others in the past indefinitely.
This is all probably related to CTA and BOI changes that began this year that are seemingly affecting small biz more than the corporate entities that this bill supposedly was about.
> Invalid address. Your business address must be a valid physical address from which you conduct business and cannot be a P.O. Box. This address is not shared publicly and can be your personal address. You may use a P.O. Box as your customer support address.
So in other words, a personal home address should work.
Although its odd your error message is seemingly saying a personal address doesn't work, unless "private mailbox" means a privately rented commercial box, like UPS
> Once again, Thanks Stripe. It's been real, but it's probably time to move on.
I don't follow. The CTA and BOI things you linked to are from the (US) government, so everybody else has to force you to do the same thing. Are you just shooting the messenger here?
I use a registered agent and a mail service. Basically, if the RA receives mail for my business they digitally scan it and email it to me. Costs $200/year and can go up to $600/year depending on how much mail you receive.
It is not, you can just register a registered agent service. Many services, like Stripe Atlas, will provide this for you, for free, at incorporation time.
There are probably a number of edge cases around physical permanent addresses for both individuals and businesses that I suspect are less edge than they used to be.
It's not so easy for customers to buy crypto to make these Web3 payments. If your bank is Chase you basically cannot without them closing all your accounts.
Many people at RenFaires and music festivals use Stripe. This is going to wipe them out as customers. Also fully remote businesses. It's clear to me Stripe wants brick and mortar businesses, or online businesses that have an office. Which I find sad, because they're abandoning a bunch of customers depending on them. Though it is an opportunity for some startup to cater to those customers.
A physical biz address does not mean you have to have an office.
I’ve been using my home address as the business address of my company ever since I first created it, and before that I did the same for my sole proprietorship.
Fully remote businesses still have a headquarters address.
There's a lot of FUD in this comment section, but any business that is already doing business things is registered for paying taxes, which requires an address.
No lol. They just need to provide a physical address, this is a pretty normal requirement when conducting business, even in today's online world.
Those fully remote businesses still have to have a registered agent where they can receive physical mail or be served legal documents. They can just use that address with stripe.
anticorporate|2 years ago
But there are huge consequences for small business owners in requiring a physical address. I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide, because providing _any_ address for my business is a fiction. My business is where ever I am. To date, I've paid for a registered agent service in my state so I can use their address. It costs me several hundred dollars a year for the "convenience" of not listing my home address in public records, which again, would also not be accurate because my business does not exist in my home. Same with a nonprofit I'm involved with - the nonprofit exists on Zoom and in temporary space we rent for meetings and events, and we receive mail to a PO Box.
There are also further downstream implications to this kind of problem. Suddenly if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors.
gamblor956|2 years ago
Zoning compliance is not required for a home office (assuming white collar type work). Many, but not all jurisdictions require business licenses, even for home offices. This does not trigger inspections, because a business license isn't about the workplace, it's about the business itself.
EDIT/FOLLOWUP: Your "place of business" does not need to be your mailing address, because you can use a PO Box. It also doesn't need to be your address for legal service (i.e., for service of lawsuits), since most companies use a registered agent for that. At the most basic level, for a solo entrepreneur, your place of business is simply the one common location to which you have a legal right from which you do at least some of your business. In the absence of an owned or leased/subleased office or other workplace, it defaults to your residence.
Aurornis|2 years ago
Is Stripe revealing this address to customers?
This page only says a business address must be provided, not that it will be revealed to customers.
If you have a business, you already have a business address and you're paying taxes somewhere. Why can't you use that address?
> Suddenly if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors
What country are you in? Do you have any examples of this happening, or is this just a hypothetical you came up with?
Regardless, if your business is registered and you're paying taxes then, again, there's already an address associated with it. Stripe verifying this address isn't going to send local inspectors to your home.
hankchinaski|2 years ago
mattgreenrocks|2 years ago
I think this is the crux of it: who could see this information? Where is it flowing to now, and where can it flow to in the future?
Arainach|2 years ago
Surely you see how this is also a desirable trait for every scammer out there?
> if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors.
"this change makes it harder to violate the law" is not a compelling argument
mytailorisrich|2 years ago
This does not have to be the place of business but is to ensure that legal documents may be served and other official letters delivered.
There are many services offering virtual office addresses for this.
It is not a problem. In fact, would you go into business with a company that has no address?
tinyprojects|2 years ago
I'm a US non-resident (from the UK) who registered a business via Stripe Atlas, and used Earth Class Mail (a Stripe Atlas partner) to setup and incorporate my company when I signed up to Stripe Atlas.
Due to the nature of my business, a large majority of payments are micro-transactions, so I spoke with a Stripe employee who kindly enabled micro-transaction pricing on my account.
Fast-forward to a few months ago, and I decide to offer a subscription service for my business at a higher price point. I was advised by a Stripe employee to set up a new Stripe account for these higher priced transactions as micro-transaction pricing wouldn't make sense, so I registered a new US Stripe account using the exact same business details as my Stripe Atlas account (using my Earth Class Mail address, EIN, etc.)
My original US Stripe Atlas account seems to have passed this new US verification fine - whereas my new US Stripe account is threatened to have payouts/payments disabled on March 12th unless I provide a physical US address, as it doesn't like the Earth Class Mail one.
I have contacted Stripe customer support who have not been helpful - if there's anyone at Stripe who can help me with this I would hugely, hugely appreciate some help.
sailingparrot|2 years ago
* The slightly hacky one: Find a virtual office in the U.S. whose address isn't flagged by Stripe + get a virtual U.S. phone number
* The proper solution: You need to transition to a UK Stripe account and provide your UK address/phone number. Even though your business is incorporated in the US what seem to matter is where you effectively do business. As long as you can provide a proof you are effectively doing business from the UK, Stripe will not have any issue with getting you a UK based Stripe account for US based corp.
This is all very weird, especially as you said, Stripe Atlas specifically encourages you go the registered agents route, only to then have the rug pulled from under your feet.
louzell|2 years ago
FWIW my biz address doesn't have PO box in the address. It is re-used though (which I know because when I tried to register a DUNS number with Apple the first problem I ran into was another business was already registered at the same address)
JoshuaRowe|2 years ago
Invalid address. Your business address must be a valid physical address from which you conduct business and cannot be a private mailbox. Please correct the following...
So now, I have to find a new business address (either rent a place, or do a virtual office), which isn't as simple as just getting a new address. I then have to update every single account online or in person that uses it, and officially ask my state's SoS to update my biz info. There is probably other stuff I am not even thinking of in this moment as well. In addition, Stripe wants me to get a new biz address before March 13th or "payouts" will be impacted. Not processing! They are happy to use my money to make money for themselves and hold it like they have done to others in the past indefinitely.
This is all probably related to CTA and BOI changes that began this year that are seemingly affecting small biz more than the corporate entities that this bill supposedly was about.
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1974
https://www.fincen.gov/boi
Once again, Thanks Stripe. It's been real, but it's probably time to move on.
cj|2 years ago
> Invalid address. Your business address must be a valid physical address from which you conduct business and cannot be a P.O. Box. This address is not shared publicly and can be your personal address. You may use a P.O. Box as your customer support address.
So in other words, a personal home address should work.
Although its odd your error message is seemingly saying a personal address doesn't work, unless "private mailbox" means a privately rented commercial box, like UPS
fragmede|2 years ago
I don't follow. The CTA and BOI things you linked to are from the (US) government, so everybody else has to force you to do the same thing. Are you just shooting the messenger here?
elzbardico|2 years ago
djstein|2 years ago
bonestamp2|2 years ago
llmblockchain|2 years ago
apozem|2 years ago
pnathan|2 years ago
Shank|2 years ago
ghaff|2 years ago
hackerfooze|2 years ago
rickreynoldssf|2 years ago
drpossum|2 years ago
unknown|2 years ago
[deleted]
Communitivity|2 years ago
codetrotter|2 years ago
I’ve been using my home address as the business address of my company ever since I first created it, and before that I did the same for my sole proprietorship.
johnmaguire|2 years ago
Are you thinking of Square, perhaps?
whalesalad|2 years ago
Aurornis|2 years ago
Fully remote businesses still have a headquarters address.
There's a lot of FUD in this comment section, but any business that is already doing business things is registered for paying taxes, which requires an address.
unknown|2 years ago
[deleted]
patmorgan23|2 years ago
Those fully remote businesses still have to have a registered agent where they can receive physical mail or be served legal documents. They can just use that address with stripe.