[iraldir]

As always with that sort of conversation, I don't think "screen" is a valid category of interaction. Drawing on photoshop, watching a documentary on whales, playing bejeweled or using TikTok are very different activities that impact the brain differently.

My daughter is still young (2.5 years old), but I know that I'll let her play video games when she wants as long as it's as part of other activities in the day and that the games are ones that develop either her logic, creativity or motor skills.

Similarly, watching a quality show like bluey, or watching a full movie end to finish like Totoro in Japanese are watching activities I support, whereas watching some crap cartoon made to sell toys is not.

[tgv]

I think we can safely assume toddlers don't use photoshop, and don't play bejeweled. I also can't quite imagine them watching a nature documentary.

Video games won't develop motor skills, unless you find some tough games which require very fast hand-eye coordination at the child's level. Even then it's going to be very limited in comparison to e.g. drawing, throwing and catching a ball or playing a musical instrument. Creativity from video games is something I find even harder to believe. Logic is about the only thing that games manage to convey, but at that age, logic is weird. Toddlers can't reason well, and can't explain themselves.

A tablet or a phone is like candy to children. Be careful.

[iraldir]

My 2 years 5 month old toddler uses Adobe fresco on my wacom tablet every now and then, she knows how to switch colours and draw, I erase the page every now and then for her.

She also watches every now and then "C'est pas sorcier", a french documentary series for kids that's pretty advanced (go into details of biology etc.), on all sorts of topics (nature, science, food etc.). That's also a good way for her to experience some French as we live in the UK and her only source of French are talking to me, or to her grandmother on the phone.

Just to be clear she does plenty of other activities, we cook together (she has a children's chef knife and uses it to cut things like tofu, carrots etc.), she draws on paper, she sings and dance, goes to the swimming pool weekly etc.

As for video game, that's more for later as she does not have yet the skills for that but at a glance

- Logic : Puzzle games, things like incredible machines, but also management game like sim-city. - Creativity : Any sandbox game, the sims, minecraft, drawing game, sculpting game, animal crossing etc. - Motor skills: Platformers, fighting games...

Essentially any game that requires a lot of effort for little reward, as opposed to games that makes you touch something shiny and shower you in visual and auditive feedback.

[yowzadave]

The thing that bothers me about game interactions is that they are designed to provide quick and easy positive feedback loops, unlike most real-world skills. E.g., learning the piano requires a lot of difficult persistence with uncertain feedback along the way--it's an entirely different experience than playing a video game, and I worry that conditioning our brains with games makes it harder for us to develop the patience and resilience that are required to develop those kinds of skills.

[lupusreal]

Of course kids watch nature documentaries. Kids love animals.

> Creativity from video games is something I find even harder to believe. Logic is about the only thing that games manage to convey,

Kids playing Minecraft probably aren't building computers.

[sigmoid10]

It depends on the game, but certain kinds of games have been shown in a number of studies to improve a wide array of abilities - from daily hand-eye coordination tasks [1] over decision making [2] all the way to problem solving [3]. The only question is if you want your kid to play COD or Starcraft, but the benefits are there and if your kid is not interested in learning an instrument, it's way better to have them play these types of games rather than some low mental effort smartphone attention sink.

[1] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/095679761665030...

[2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187705092...

[3] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235367249_More_Than...

[finfrastrcuture]

Parenting is so tough to discuss. Nothing is ever a best (or even 'right') answer. I agree with this take, with a "yes, and" -

I worry about apps / video games for children also stunting imagination. Yes, in a game like Minecraft you can build anything out of blocks, or with Photoshop draw anything. However, the entire 'universe of outcomes' is inherently bound to the mind(s) of the developers, compared with a bored kid who's possibilities are limited only by their own imagination. Children are therefore pressed to stretch and practice creativity. Its not a perfect analogy, but I'm reminded of the theme in the Matrix movies of bounded outcomes.

I personally think creativity through raw boredom - rather than directed distraction (especially through digital devices)- is essential to mental development.

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

Really? Give super mario to a toddler watch as they get frustrated, cry and smash the controller with a huge tantrum.

And I'm not sure what videogames you play, but hand eye coordination needs to be really high. something that's also overlooked is the level of reflexes they develop. In new super mario bros U, initially I would need to say "now jump" with roughly a 6 seconds anticipation before the actual jumo, now my toddler can jump properly in the first few levels.

Give it toa 5 years old and they are nowehere close to being able to do what he can do, so he must have developed something.

Of course you give them hard games, it's the same reason why you give them veggies and not candies. You give healthy videogames, not the garbage that goes on tablet and phones.

Oh and regarding creativity, my children played videogames, then got bored. With mum, they built a super mario level using duplo blocks and proceeded to play using the action figures we have.

Something strongly overlooked, is the level of focus required to play hard videogames, so something they develop is, indeed, focus.

And decision making! There is so much to decide in a videogame, often rapidly.

All of this happens in the same room as me, to be clear (still working), so I can see when they get bored and it's time for a change. Also they don't have access to the games, so they have a single videogame at a time with one change per day, which a great natural way to enforce focusing and getting bored if playing excessively

[D13Fd]

Video games can definitely have a lot of benefits over television. My son, who is the third of five, has played an online competitive FPS game since he was four years old. It’s had a number of benefits, including motivating him to learn to read at a much earlier age than his siblings. He wanted to learn to read so badly to play his video game that he can now legitimately just sit and read a book that he has never seen before, before he has even reached kindergarten.

[polishdude20]

Wow that's impressive. I only learned to read in the first grade.

[mordae]

I feel that the previous generation of MLP with Twilight Sparkle was actually pretty good. Despite being made by a company who wanted to sell toys.

Most cringe episodes are the first and last two of the season, but the slice of life in the middle are more often than not golden.

But yeah, creating a curated library and not leaving it to chance would probably be a good idea.

[iraldir]

Yeah for sure, MLP friendship is magic is there in the list of high quality show. It's unavoidable that toys are sold on popular francises, I just don't want show that are obviously just 20 minutes long advertisements with little substance.

[bmacho]

There are not many cartoons made to sell toys that I know of. There is MLP, and .. Star Wars maybe?

And MLP is indeed a quite good show, fans ranging from Miley Cyrus to Gabe Newell.

Also I don't know how is it considered bad if characters are lovable (MLP has 50+ different, but lovable characters by design), or that if objects around her (clothes, mugs, toys, other merch) make her feel good?

[bequanna]

Some screen time is ok, but this can be a slippery slope.

Screen time for your child might buy you some free time, but is not a replacement for real interaction.

In 20, 30, 40 years I guarantee you will give anything to be able to go back and spend more time with your young child.

Children are not distractions from important work, they ARE the important work.