[gataca]

Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas, the same people who claimed 500 people died in a hospital Israel bombed but when it was revealed their own rocket bombed it the casualty numbers dropped 10-fold, war isn’t arithmetic.

The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide cover for their rapists but doesn’t allow civilians to shelter, it’s tragic that Hamas is killing its own people this way but Israel should continue until Hamas is defeated like Germany was.

[YavuzKrgl]

It turned out that the footage presented by israel as "a rocket fired by the Islamic Jihad fell on the hospital" was a lie.[0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Qp8hVg9X0

[gryzzly]

TRT is a Turkish public broadcast service. Erdogan openly supports Hamas.

[incognos]

For the record, it was debunked that it was a Hamas rocket as none of them had that potential yield and still do not. The ordinance for that explosion only had one provenance: the United States.

[jay-barronville]

I asked them to source their claim [0]. Let’s see if they can do it.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39628938

[jay-barronville]

> Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas […]

This is an unserious argument.

1. The numbers come from Gaza’s Ministry of Health, which is indeed “controlled” by Hamas since Hamas is their governing entity.

2. The Ministry has no verifiable history of being wrong on the civilian casualty numbers. In fact, it’s quite the opposite: The Ministry’s numbers have held up to scrutiny in ALL of the previous wars (including scrutiny from Israel) [0].

3. The Biden Administration has corroborated the numbers.

4. Israel hasn’t denied the numbers. In fact, in one report from the IDF a couple months ago, they corroborated the Ministry’s numbers at the time.

5. The same silly argument could be made to dismiss just about anything coming from Israel given their documented history of lying and even manipulating our (American) media, from lies about beheaded babies [1] to pushing propaganda via U.S. media outlets like the New York Times [2].

> The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. […]

This is just a whataboutism and another unserious argument.

One evil act doesn’t justify another evil act. This is as serious of an argument as someone trying to justify slavery in 2024 by pointing to America’s history with slavery.

[0]: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-mini...

[1]: https://theintercept.com/2023/12/14/israel-biden-beheaded-ba...

[2]: https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schw...

[gataca]

> The Ministry has no verifiable history of being wrong on the civilian casualty numbers

This is laughable. They claimed that Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people that the Palestinians themselves bombed. You are either hopelessly biased and unserious or uninformed.

[tptacek]

That's not what "debunking" means. It's an article that disputes the current consensus that an errant rocket from Gaza exploded in the hospital. Having the debate is fine (if it's on topic), but preemptively declaring the debate over, misrepresenting the consensus on the issue, and accusing those asserting the current consensus of "misinformation" is disingenuous, and you can't do that and still be civil.

[GordonS]

> Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas

The UN and Lancet [0] believe the numbers are credible. Let's not forget there are likely 10k+ civilians still burried under rubble too.

> Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide cover for their rapists

Come on, you are not commenting in good faith. There is zero credible evidence that any rape took place, Hamas have staunchly denied it, and from what returning hostages have said it seems incredibly unlikely. There is however an abundance of evidence that Israel is trying to use rape as attrocity propaganda.

> it’s tragic that Hamas is killing its own people this way

This is absolutely absurd - it's like telling a domestic violence victim it's their own fault.

[0] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

[reducesuffering]

What happened to “believe women?”

You think in a sudden 1143 person civilian homicidal attack, going door to door, no rape happened?

“UN team says rape, gang rape likely occurred during Hamas attack on Israel”

UN: “The mission team received clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment occurred against some women and children during their time in captivity.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-team-says-rape-...

https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/wp-content/uploa...