Even if it was a suicide, that still doesn't mean it was self-motivated. People who care enough to be whistleblowers, would likely care enough about wellbeing of their family or other people - enough to sacrifice themselves once again under sufficient threats and pressure.
Or, even more likely, end things not because directly being requested to, but because of having no other way to NOT be forced to back out and cower at the very end, and betray themselves and other people.
All of which is unfortunately making it almost trivial for the adversary to steer things into that direction.
Reminds me of Ian Gibbons, the Theranos scientist who spoke up about the company's practices. He took his life shortly before he was set to be deposed in one of the lawsuits.
According to John Carreyrou's book, the company hired law firms to stalk, harass and threaten employees; law firms which -- unlike Theranos -- are still operating, having apparently never faced any consequences for their actions.
Granted, a movie, but something that portrays this well is The Insider (about big tobacco).
Choice quotes:
> Mike Wallace: Who are these people?
> Lowell Bergman: Ordinary people under extraordinary pressure, Mike. What the hell do you expect? Grace and consistency?
And:
> Lowell Bergman: I fought for you and I still fight for you!
> Jeffrey Wigand: You fought for me? You manipulated me! Into where I am now - staring at the Brown & Williamson building, it's all dark except for the tenth floor. That's the legal department, that's where they fuck with my life!
> Lowell Bergman: Jeffrey, where are you going with this? Where are you going? (Pause) You are important to a lot of people, Jeffrey. You think about that, and you think about them.
“We need more information about what happened to John,” attorneys Robert Turkewitz and Brian Knowles, who represent former Boeing manager John Barnett, said in a statement Tuesday. “The Charleston police need to investigate this fully and accurately and tell the public.
“We didn’t see any indication he would take his own life,” they added. “No one can believe it.”
He was scheduled to appear for day two of his deposition testimony the morning of his death. Had he died Sat night instead of Sat morning, the transcript of Saturday's testimony could have been read to the jury during trial. Obviously that can't happen now and whatever he was going to say in Saturday's testimony is lost forever.
The emotional strain of being a whistleblower and having your colleagues now see you as the enemy is not something I’ve read about, but it must take a toll. A whistleblower, almost by definition, is a hero to strangers and a villain to those they know and work with.
Or he was simply executed like in many corporate espionage movies.
A piece of information in this article which is not in that article:
> The family says Barnett's health declined because of the stresses of taking a stand against his longtime employer.
> "He was suffering from PTSD and anxiety attacks as a result of being subjected to the hostile work environment at Boeing," they said, "which we believe led to his death."
Why does a whistleblower need to be identified? Why can't it be an anonymous tip to the regulator, who then uses the tip during audits to dig deeper and get to the truth? If they can't get to the truth even after being provided a tip, then their audit process is too broken? This whole business of non-anonymous whistleblower has too much power-imbalance and always seems to end badly for the individual.
Suicide in a car is a “popular” way of doing this because there is less cleaning afterwards. Crime scene cleaning of a room costs like $20k.
Bodily fluids go everywhere.
The timing is suspicious but that doesn't mean it wasn't suicide. If he was determined to kill himself there might be several reasons to do it today. Maybe he wanted to cast suspicion on Boeing. Or maybe he didn't want to testify - could be tons of reasons for that. I have no idea. Just saying the two events could be connected without it being murder.
suicidal people are, be definition, crazy. It's impossible to put yourself in their shoes. When the switch flips, suicide just seems like the logical solution and is very matter-of-fact. It's impossible to really understand what's going on in a suicidal person's mind at the time.
He should have done like Snowden. Got out of the country before exposing material. Shouldn't a witness in a high profile case like him been granted some sort of police escort by the court?
Guy paid the ultimate price for freedom of speech and informing the public. Wonder if someone will sustain there is no threat to freedom of speech because the lawsuit involved the company where he was employed, not the government.
I'm also reminded of Aaron Schartz, as well as the ordeal Steven Donzinger went through against Chevron. Fortunately survived, but had to serve some prison time[1].
What I don’t understand is how does Boeing expect to make the issues go away? Covering up the problems just kicks the can down the road. They still have shoddy planes out in the world. Is quarterly performance now more important than not having planes fall out of the sky somewhere later on? I guess I’m naive here.
Boeing isn't a person, it's a collection of individuals all trying to further their career. That's another executive's problem, their job is just to maximize their career earnings / potential while at boeing and then jump ship when the timing makes sense to.
It's just crazy to think how much things can change. Boeing was once the pinnacle of innovation; a company which achieved something seemingly impossible at commercial scale and then perfected it to an incredible standard. It's just crazy to think that such perfect company could decline to such low standard both on the technical side and ethics side.
It looks like a HR problem. They replaced people who are very good at building stuff with people who are very good at politics. But no amount of bullshitting can substitute engineering excellence when it comes to keeping aircraft in the air.
THis isn't an HR problem, it's not an engineering problem, this is a "think about quarterly profits only, bean counting" problem. Engineers need time to do quality work, constantly rushing things for upping the rookie numbers before the end of the quarter is paramount at Boeing these days rather than proper engineering from all the stuff I've seen. Seems like a clown circus of executives over there.
Change this to Russia and what is your first thought? Another mysterious death...
In a way it's better to indirectly choke a whistleblower to the point of death than to have to make them shoot themseleves twice in the back of the head on throw themselves off a skyscraper. That sort of thing.
Well-known Boeing critic and whistleblower John Barnett was found shot to death Saturday in Charleston, South Carolina. According to the BBC, the local coroner’s office said the gunshot wound that killed him was “self inflicted” and that police are investigating. Barnett’s body was found in his truck in a hotel parking lot. He had completed two days of depositions concerning a whistleblower retaliation lawsuit against Boeing. He was found after he failed to show up for his third day of testimony. Boeing told BBC it was saddened by Barnett’s death.
Regardless of whether there was foul play or not, it's looking pretty bad for Boeing.
They, or someone else with a stake of protecting the company, killed someone, or they made someone so despaired he saw no other way than to kill himself.
Or someone with an interest in making Boeing look bad, such as Comac or a foreign government that wants to tarnish the reputation of one of America's largest exporters.
> they made someone so despaired he saw no other way than to kill himself.
Give the man some agency. If he chose to end his own life, that was his decision alone. And it may be entirely unrelated to Boeing. Maybe he would have done it anyway at this point in his life.
I'm just going to take this story at face value, there's an infinite number of alternate explanations that I'd be powerless to talk about.
I've had my own (thankfully brief) moments where I've thought about suicide just from the perception that my coworkers, my bosses, the entire world, just does not care about doing the right thing.
Mr Barnett worked for the same company for over three decades and physically watched it stop caring about building airplanes. I know that can take a toll, and the stress of martyring yourself to let everyone else know has to be intense.
>my coworkers, my bosses, the entire world, just does not care about doing the right thing.
I was pondering today about how the current economic condition of the populace incentivizes workers (everybody) to ignore moral concerns. If you saw something that really bothered you morally and were to blow the whistle and it hit the news cycle, you would never be able to work in your field again. You would probably get sued (legitimately or not). You could no longer provide for yourself or your family; probably for the rest of your life.
I worked at an immoral company; a small health insurance company that constantly weaseled out of paying claims. They even fired a new worker who had gotten in a car accident just so they wouldn't have to pay for it; the health insurance provided to employees was from the company's product line. They would always say, "we're not denying you care, we just aren't going to pay for it." One time a disgruntled customer or family member showed up with a gun to the office. This was decades ago and I did the only thing I felt I could do. I left when I could and I feel pretty good about it. They were eventually shut down by the state for not paying claims. I would have left earlier but I had rent and bills to pay. That's how modern economic conditions incentivize people to ignore moral concerns.
Long story short, if you feel you are working at a company that forces you to ignore moral concerns and you can't overcome it, work towards getting the fuck out as soon as you can financially.
And he not only watched the company fail spectacularly, in several of those cases those failures were connected to deaths, which I imagine he could feel personally responsible for not preventing, even if the corporate machine is really where the responsibility lies.
> I've had my own (thankfully brief) moments where I've thought about suicide just from the perception that my coworkers, my bosses, the entire world, just does not care about doing the right thing.
Please share how you managed with this. I’ve been here for a few years - since I lost my wife - and some days I can barely hang on.
I endure the feature creeps of computer languages with their compiler implementations (ISO and gcc extensions are the worse). Sneaky and vicious planned obsolescence scheme on a 5-10 years cycle.
It is very accute too. Just a bunch of scammers with an army of brain washed dudes or worse. We have a name for them: Big Tech.
Everybody has limits.
But in this very case, this is extremely unfortunate timing... or even more fishy than expected. Whatever, something is off in Boeing. Some screws need tightening ...
Just to chime in on the 'alternate explanations', I think it's important for anyone with conspiracy ideas to remember that the case he was being questioned in was not an investigation into Boeings liability as an airplane manufacturer, but rather a civil suit he made against Boeing for defamation of character.
[+] [-] alluro2|2 years ago|reply
Or, even more likely, end things not because directly being requested to, but because of having no other way to NOT be forced to back out and cower at the very end, and betray themselves and other people.
All of which is unfortunately making it almost trivial for the adversary to steer things into that direction.
[+] [-] caditinpiscinam|2 years ago|reply
According to John Carreyrou's book, the company hired law firms to stalk, harass and threaten employees; law firms which -- unlike Theranos -- are still operating, having apparently never faced any consequences for their actions.
[+] [-] FireBeyond|2 years ago|reply
Choice quotes:
> Mike Wallace: Who are these people?
> Lowell Bergman: Ordinary people under extraordinary pressure, Mike. What the hell do you expect? Grace and consistency?
And:
> Lowell Bergman: I fought for you and I still fight for you!
> Jeffrey Wigand: You fought for me? You manipulated me! Into where I am now - staring at the Brown & Williamson building, it's all dark except for the tenth floor. That's the legal department, that's where they fuck with my life!
> Lowell Bergman: Jeffrey, where are you going with this? Where are you going? (Pause) You are important to a lot of people, Jeffrey. You think about that, and you think about them.
[+] [-] lenkite|2 years ago|reply
“We need more information about what happened to John,” attorneys Robert Turkewitz and Brian Knowles, who represent former Boeing manager John Barnett, said in a statement Tuesday. “The Charleston police need to investigate this fully and accurately and tell the public.
“We didn’t see any indication he would take his own life,” they added. “No one can believe it.”
[+] [-] godlark|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kiicia|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] keernan|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ListeningPie|2 years ago|reply
Or he was simply executed like in many corporate espionage movies.
[+] [-] kube-system|2 years ago|reply
> The family says Barnett's health declined because of the stresses of taking a stand against his longtime employer.
> "He was suffering from PTSD and anxiety attacks as a result of being subjected to the hostile work environment at Boeing," they said, "which we believe led to his death."
[+] [-] dang|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lawn|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HanClinto|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ecoquant|2 years ago|reply
I would have to suspect he felt trapped and this was the only way out of testifying.
[+] [-] vinay_ys|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] torstenvl|2 years ago|reply
EDIT: Also weird that BBC is already memory-holing that it was a gunshot wound. archive.is has the original.
https://archive.is/wj0LE
[+] [-] mef|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmbyrro|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KingOfCoders|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coolspot|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blast|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmbyrro|2 years ago|reply
What he already disclosed has done far more harm than that.
And what he could have said would certainly cause even more harm than his silence.
[+] [-] fullshark|2 years ago|reply
Ridiculous. Although I agree there's more than one possible, highly disturbing explanation for this.
[+] [-] chasd00|2 years ago|reply
/have some experience here a couple decades back
[+] [-] grouchomarx|2 years ago|reply
?
[+] [-] pydry|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Qem|2 years ago|reply
Guy paid the ultimate price for freedom of speech and informing the public. Wonder if someone will sustain there is no threat to freedom of speech because the lawsuit involved the company where he was employed, not the government.
I'm also reminded of Aaron Schartz, as well as the ordeal Steven Donzinger went through against Chevron. Fortunately survived, but had to serve some prison time[1].
[1]. https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/steven-don...
[+] [-] S_A_P|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fullshark|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dfxm12|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tenlp|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jongjong|2 years ago|reply
It looks like a HR problem. They replaced people who are very good at building stuff with people who are very good at politics. But no amount of bullshitting can substitute engineering excellence when it comes to keeping aircraft in the air.
[+] [-] EasyMark|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] boppo1|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] datadrivenangel|2 years ago|reply
Sounds very suspect.
[+] [-] treebeard901|2 years ago|reply
In a way it's better to indirectly choke a whistleblower to the point of death than to have to make them shoot themseleves twice in the back of the head on throw themselves off a skyscraper. That sort of thing.
[+] [-] qwertyuiop_|2 years ago|reply
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/boeing-whistleblower-dea...
[+] [-] gorbachev|2 years ago|reply
They, or someone else with a stake of protecting the company, killed someone, or they made someone so despaired he saw no other way than to kill himself.
[+] [-] userabchn|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rootusrootus|2 years ago|reply
Give the man some agency. If he chose to end his own life, that was his decision alone. And it may be entirely unrelated to Boeing. Maybe he would have done it anyway at this point in his life.
[+] [-] edncy33|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yifanl|2 years ago|reply
I've had my own (thankfully brief) moments where I've thought about suicide just from the perception that my coworkers, my bosses, the entire world, just does not care about doing the right thing.
Mr Barnett worked for the same company for over three decades and physically watched it stop caring about building airplanes. I know that can take a toll, and the stress of martyring yourself to let everyone else know has to be intense.
[+] [-] Clubber|2 years ago|reply
I was pondering today about how the current economic condition of the populace incentivizes workers (everybody) to ignore moral concerns. If you saw something that really bothered you morally and were to blow the whistle and it hit the news cycle, you would never be able to work in your field again. You would probably get sued (legitimately or not). You could no longer provide for yourself or your family; probably for the rest of your life.
I worked at an immoral company; a small health insurance company that constantly weaseled out of paying claims. They even fired a new worker who had gotten in a car accident just so they wouldn't have to pay for it; the health insurance provided to employees was from the company's product line. They would always say, "we're not denying you care, we just aren't going to pay for it." One time a disgruntled customer or family member showed up with a gun to the office. This was decades ago and I did the only thing I felt I could do. I left when I could and I feel pretty good about it. They were eventually shut down by the state for not paying claims. I would have left earlier but I had rent and bills to pay. That's how modern economic conditions incentivize people to ignore moral concerns.
Long story short, if you feel you are working at a company that forces you to ignore moral concerns and you can't overcome it, work towards getting the fuck out as soon as you can financially.
[+] [-] rmbyrro|2 years ago|reply
I see only one reasonably acceptable alternate explanation.
He either committed suicide or was suicided by someone at Boeing terrified about what would happen to them in jail.
[+] [-] ocdtrekkie|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leetrout|2 years ago|reply
How did you overcome this?
[+] [-] mdekkers|2 years ago|reply
Please share how you managed with this. I’ve been here for a few years - since I lost my wife - and some days I can barely hang on.
[+] [-] sylware|2 years ago|reply
It is very accute too. Just a bunch of scammers with an army of brain washed dudes or worse. We have a name for them: Big Tech.
Everybody has limits.
But in this very case, this is extremely unfortunate timing... or even more fishy than expected. Whatever, something is off in Boeing. Some screws need tightening ...
[+] [-] cptaj|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] furyg3|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aydyn|2 years ago|reply
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