[rusty_venture]

What's your point? China literally has a nationwide firewall to prevent Western ideas from entering the minds of its subjects. Why should we throw open our digital borders to Chinese influence campaigns? "The supreme art of war is to defeat the enemy without fighting", e.g. to undermine Americans' faith in our democratic institutions, to gain the ability to compromise our critical infrastructure, and to influence our politics. All explicitly stated goals of both Bejing and the Kremlin, and the misinformation and distraction campaigns carried out by Russia in the last presidential election are about to ratchet up again. I don't believe we should be making these objectives any easier for our ideological rivals.

[dauertewigkeit]

> Why should we throw open our digital borders to Chinese influence campaigns?

Because we are not China and our institutions are built on presumption of freedom of speech and freedom of thought and democracy. If we start emulating China, we will become China. Our institutions are supposed to be robust enough to handle local and foreign propaganda and if they are not, then censorship is certainly not a solution that would be compatible with the liberal democratic values that we are supposed to hold.

[WillPostForFood]

US Citizens still have the same freedom of speech and freedom of thought and democracy. Those rights don't extend to foreign adversaries. If you want to relay Chinese or Russian or Ukrainian or Israeli or Hamas propaganda, you are completely free to do it, without censorship. Limiting the ability of any of those countries to project it within the US is reasonable stance.

[TulliusCicero]

Free trade should go both ways.

It's ridiculous to let Chinese apps and websites operate in the West when China blocks so many Western sites and apps: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_...

[lancesells]

Where is freedom of speech involved with changing the ownership of a company?

[rwmj]

That's nice, but you have to defend democracy from people who wish to overthrow it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)

[basisword]

>> China literally has a nationwide firewall to prevent Western ideas from entering the minds of its subjects. Why should we throw open our digital borders to Chinese influence campaigns?

Emulating the policies of a country 'we' think 'is bad' isn't great policy.

>> undermine Americans' faith in our democratic institutions

It seems like Americans did a pretty good job of this themselves at the last election cycle. A highly politicised Supreme Court, a violent attack on the Capitol, a lot of people who don't accept or believe the election result. How much worse can TikTok make things?

[rusty_venture]

>> Emulating the policies of a country 'we' think 'is bad' isn't great policy.

The paradox of tolerance.

>> A highly politicised Supreme Court, a violent attack on the Capitol, a lot of people who don't accept or believe the election result.

2 out of 3 of these were precipitated by foreign influence campaigns on social media actively undermining Americans' trust in our political institutions, so yeah, prohibiting foreign-owned social media networks in advance of the upcoming election is definitely a step in the right direction.

[cherryteastain]

The point is that the West painted itself as the defender of freedom, democracy and free markets. Going beyond, it claimed that (in the post Reagan/Thatcher era) that free markets are a prerequisite for being a rich country. Yet, the moment free markets became inconvenient, the west dropped that narrative and went full protectionist. As a result, China gets a propaganda victory in the eyes of non-Western nations.

All things considered, it's a minor problem for the US/West. Just looking like hypocrites. Compared to, say, the 2003 Iraq war it's a nothingburger.

[TulliusCicero]

It's not hypocrisy to expect free trade to go both ways.

China blocks many major Western websites and apps. Reciprocating is far from unfair: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_...

[WillPostForFood]

West painted itself as the defender of freedom, democracy and free markets

China is not free, not a democracy, and not a free market, so there no hypocrisy. What was crazy was supporting the one sided relationship where we export our industry and production capacity to China while they block and steal from our businesses.

I'd support TikTok in the US if China gets rid of their firewall.

[JumpCrisscross]

> looking like hypocrites

This is the paradox of tolerance [1]. It’s a worn discussion and far from hypocritical.

In any case, I’d rather be right than consistent. Particularly when it comes to the survival and wellbeing of our people and allies. More pointedly when the other side is a dictatorship.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[tzs]

> All explicitly stated goals of both Bejing and the Kremlin, and the misinformation and distraction campaigns carried out by Russia in the last presidential election are about to ratchet up again. I don't believe we should be making these objectives any easier for our ideological rivals.

Those campaigns mostly took part on platforms owned and operated by US companies.