[ytx]

  > "More specifically, automakers are selling access to the data to Lexis Nexis, which is then crafting “risk scores” insurance companies then use to adjust rates. Usually upward"

In an ideal world, such data-harvesting might lead to cheaper prices / a more efficient insurance market - which would make the privacy loss worth considering from a trade-off standpoint, at least in theory.

Unfortunately it's instead likely to just lead to higher margins for insurance companies. And the only way to compete would be to harvest more data for better predictions.

[xboxnolifes]

> In an ideal world, such data-harvesting might lead to cheaper prices / a more efficient insurance market - which would make the privacy loss worth considering from a trade-off standpoint, at least in theory.

In an ideal world (read: perfect information knowledge), this would lead to insurance being a bad deal for every consumer of it. In the theoretical position where insurance companies can accurately price each individual customer based on their habits, they will charge them exactly what they cost _plus_ a margin.

This is only useful for a consumer if they cannot access cash or a credit line to pay for a sudden large expense. Instead, insurance effectively becomes paying the credit line ahead of time.

[jowea]

> This is only useful for a consumer if they cannot access cash or a credit line to pay for a sudden large expense.

Isn't that the main point of insurance?

Insurance can also socially redistribute bad things. Which fair enough it is in practice a result of insurance but I don't think that's what it was invented for. And indeed the better the insurer's crystal ball the smaller this effect is.

Although in practice I don't think there ever will be a crystal ball good enough to make insurance a bad deal for everyone like that. You always have to insure against another driver being bad or just plain bad luck.

[mindslight]

No, the point of buying insurance is to reduce your individual variance even though your average cost goes up. It's not an individual savings plan, but rather shared pooling of risk.

[username332211]

Insurance companies don't have to make money from underwriting or insurance.

[thfuran]

In an ideal world, such data harvesting would be illegal, with liability adhering to the executives pushing for and approving the initiative as well as any legal counsel involved. Acquiring the data should require explicit, truly informed, and revocable consent not buried in a bunch of BS and not required for the purchase of a vehicle or insurance.

[ytx]

I wholeheartedly agree that the dark patterns around consent are atrocious. But I also think hn is probably biased in its valuation of an individual's data.

If companies offered say a $50/month discount on car insurance premiums in exchange for gathering data, I imagine a large proportion of people would indeed opt in to that (setting aside issues of selection bias or trust in this ideal world)

[elzbardico]

Basically they keep the profits and socialize the risks.

[lotsofpulp]

> Unfortunately it's instead likely to just lead to higher margins for insurance companies.

Why? Insurance pricing is heavily regulated, and profit margins for insurers have always been very low.