After reading this thread https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5654674 (especially this comment), Friend of mine sent to me this article. Maybe it's coincident maybe not. But kind of good response.
Sure, you might say, there are some geniuses in Open Source who are obnoxious, and we need them. But my question is this - how many geniuses who are quiet and confrontation averse have left Open Source, never to return, because of the way they were treated?
The problem is that not everybody agrees on who is the asshole. Somebody who wishes to force professionalism (ie a suit whether he wears it or nor not) on me is a bigger asshole than one who writes good code but can start a good flame war.
One could argue that while assholes may write good code, for all we know they're putting off people that would write as good or even better code and not be assholes.
This especially applies to women - sure there are misogynistic jerks that are great coders, but who's to say the women they are putting off wouldn't be better in the long run?
I hear the argument that if someone is dedicated enough they'll overlook the abuse they get and do what they do anyway, but the entire premise of the overarching debate is that social skills don't really correlate with technical skills, which blows that argument out of the water - people might not have the social skills to deal with shitbags, but that doesn't mean they aren't fantastic amazing programmers.
Why is it that people care so much about how many females there is this industry? Isn't it more important how good code I write, than the fact that I have a cock between my legs and not a cunt?
Anyway social skills are pretty much just a filter between what you want to say (how many times to you think "this guy is an asshole" and don't say it) and what you actually say and part of this is the ability to pick up (and care about) what others feel and guess (and if really good) force their reactions and desires to match what you want them to do (see the end of the previous paragraph for an example).
None of that has anything to do with code. The compiler has no feelings and doesn't care about yours.
So if you want somebody in charge of the project, make sure they can deal with people (including assholes). If you want code written, accept that the people who can do it best have better things to care about than feelings.
Having never done open source before, I'm wondering about something: if an open source project is started, once it becomes popular and attracts community of developers and other contributors I assume the power shifts from the guy who started the project to the community. Does the person who started the project still retains his power to boot out the assholes from his project or not?
It depends. The founders tend to hang around and retain power. Larry Wall (Perl) and Guido van Rossum (Python) have kept a fair amount of control and strongly encouraged a friendly atmosphere. Debian Linux became a voting democracy and is reasonably pleasant.
Nothing stops someone from forking an open source project, making their own version. The BSD Unixes are famous for schisms, and some of the new founders are famously ... opinionated. One of benefits of open source is that obnoxious but competent people boot themselves out.
[+] [-] AndrewDucker|14 years ago|reply
Sure, you might say, there are some geniuses in Open Source who are obnoxious, and we need them. But my question is this - how many geniuses who are quiet and confrontation averse have left Open Source, never to return, because of the way they were treated?
[+] [-] tomjen3|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xando|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] j_col|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antihero|14 years ago|reply
This especially applies to women - sure there are misogynistic jerks that are great coders, but who's to say the women they are putting off wouldn't be better in the long run?
I hear the argument that if someone is dedicated enough they'll overlook the abuse they get and do what they do anyway, but the entire premise of the overarching debate is that social skills don't really correlate with technical skills, which blows that argument out of the water - people might not have the social skills to deal with shitbags, but that doesn't mean they aren't fantastic amazing programmers.
[+] [-] tomjen3|14 years ago|reply
Anyway social skills are pretty much just a filter between what you want to say (how many times to you think "this guy is an asshole" and don't say it) and what you actually say and part of this is the ability to pick up (and care about) what others feel and guess (and if really good) force their reactions and desires to match what you want them to do (see the end of the previous paragraph for an example).
None of that has anything to do with code. The compiler has no feelings and doesn't care about yours.
So if you want somebody in charge of the project, make sure they can deal with people (including assholes). If you want code written, accept that the people who can do it best have better things to care about than feelings.
[+] [-] bigbritches|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaitnieks|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Daniel_Newby|14 years ago|reply
Nothing stops someone from forking an open source project, making their own version. The BSD Unixes are famous for schisms, and some of the new founders are famously ... opinionated. One of benefits of open source is that obnoxious but competent people boot themselves out.
[+] [-] roopeshv|14 years ago|reply
(not aimed at jacob, he wrote this in a different context. but this is aimed at xando who submitted it)
[+] [-] delinquentme|14 years ago|reply