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Letting go of the idea of keeping up

145 points| bingden | 2 years ago |reactormag.com | reply

156 comments

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[+] NalNezumi|2 years ago|reply
When I saw the title I thought the article would be about the dreadful stress of keeping up with new tech or research.. But it's about spare time reading?

Granted the problem seems similar, but only because the author is in the field of reading (working in books related profession).

I'm not sure how much it can be applied to just hobby reading. Stress of keeping up with tech/research comes from a sense of professional obligations (you'll fall behind to your professional peers) but there's not much of stress if you're in it as a leisure /hobby; it's not inherently competitive activity.

So the conclusion is not that helpful. It's targeted to a very small audience (people that work in a field where reading books and keeping up with the latest books, are important) and is essentially "don't worry about it!"

[+] resource_waste|2 years ago|reply
Thanks for starting the discussion.

> Stress of keeping up with tech/research comes from a sense of professional obligations (you'll fall behind to your professional peers)

Okay, I'm literally terrified about not being in the top 1% or top 10% of everything I do. Scared.

I have built my life around me with people that perform at those levels, so everyone from my wife to my best friends may disappear if I'm not performing at those levels. Not to mention, look at nature: The best do what they can and the weak suffer. It is sad, but its reality.

So I work always, every success opens up 2 new problems to deal with.

I was happier drinking Stoic koolaid.

[+] ErigmolCt|2 years ago|reply
But if you feel the stress of keeping up with new tech or keeping up with book reading, don't you think it's the same? Just don't worry, everyone has their own pace
[+] starbugs|2 years ago|reply
> So the conclusion is not that helpful.

Isn't the conclusion from the article inherently transferable to what you described? (I was assuming a different topic as well.)

[+] andsoitis|2 years ago|reply
> I'm not sure how much it can be applied to just hobby reading

When I widen my aperture, what I see is this is a form of "keeping up with the joneses", or teenagers comparing themselves to others on Instagram, or chasing the latest buzzword in technology, etc.

FOMO (fear of missing out) vs JOMO (joy of missing out) is another riff on this age-old idea.

[+] shanusmagnus|2 years ago|reply
> I'm not sure how much it can be applied to just hobby reading.

It feels very real to me, in the circles I run in.

[+] llmblockchain|2 years ago|reply
Before I started my first tech job many years ago I was quite stressed. I felt behind constantly and I was worried everyone would be so much better than me so I over compensated by reading every tech book I could get my hands on. I threw myself into them and flat out memorized and experimented with the content until I knew it through and through.

Turns out I had nothing to worry about. In my entire career I've met one guy that was ever "on my level".

I'd say yes-- book reading can help, but the dread of not being enough shouldn't be a part of it. Most tech people don't read. Most tech people don't code before 9AM or after 5PM. Most have never heard of hacker news. You're going to be o.k.

[+] starkparker|2 years ago|reply
At one of my jobs the entire team read at least a book a week, often more and seemingly non-stop. Every standup started with every person talking about what we'd read that week.

I'd never been a huge longform reader (more like a book a month, at best) and rarely had anything to contribute. Sometimes I'd say "our documentation" because that's what I'd been working on, and when I wasn't working _I wasn't reading_ because it was too much like work to enjoy.

It eventually got profoundly uncomfortable. My manager raised my non-participation as an example of how my attitude was turning too negative for the team. I'd find out from recorded team meetings when I was out sick or on vacation that they'd crack jokes about it when I wasn't around.

It particularly odd because I arguably read as much as anyone else on that team, but I preferred either technical content related to what I was working on, or shorter works like short-story collections and articles for fun. If I wasn't reading biographies and novels, it seemingly didn't count to them.

[+] vasco|2 years ago|reply
I'll be honest, they sound rude for laughing behind your back, but I really disagree with the notion that you're reading "as much" by reading some reddit articles or docs pages.

People who keep up a book per week or month ALSO read those things. I've found many people that don't read have this notion that just going on reddit for an hour a day "is the same thing", but it's nothing like sitting down and properly diving into long form.

That being said nobody should feel bad for not doing it. It's like running a marathon, don't say it's the same because you go for a walk with the dog, but nobody should be expected to run one.

[+] kwhitefoot|2 years ago|reply
> My manager raised my non-participation as an example of how my attitude was turning too negative for the team. I'd find out from recorded team meetings when I was out sick or on vacation that they'd crack jokes about it when I wasn't around.

That's workplace bullying.

[+] anal_reactor|2 years ago|reply
I can really understand how it feels from their perspective. Work feels much better when we do stuff that makes us connect as humans, and quarterly corporate events don't cut it. They created a culture where they did something fun together and had a conversation topic other than work, and there's this one guy who just refuses to participate and doesn't even try to find a way to include himself in the group.

Sure, reading a book a week takes time from your other activities and is way too much to expect, but if you had spent 15 minutes on Monday morning browsing Wikipedia on the topic of literature and brought some trivia, that would have been much appreciated.

People often complain about the soullessness of corporate jobs, but when someone tries to do something about it, there's usually huge pushback because everyone wants that something to fit their personal preferences, and since we can't find a thing that everyone likes, we go back to treating job as a pure business relationship.

[+] derwiki|2 years ago|reply
That sounds super toxic and weird.
[+] gloryjulio|2 years ago|reply
I would change job unless the pay is extremely good. This is almost about privacy invasion. Why do they care so much people do at their own time?
[+] freetinker|2 years ago|reply
This sounds super toxic - unless you got paid for reading novels.
[+] elzbardico|2 years ago|reply
This place was toxic, and those folks a bunch of pseudo-intelectual idiots.
[+] droobles|2 years ago|reply
Like... an involuntary book club? As in one person opened up that they read something like The Scarlet Letter? I'm sorry that you experienced that.

At an old job I read a fiction series based on a suggestion from my manager but that's because we liked the same type of books, absolutely was not expected to be read to join the "in" crowd. If anything, we were the "out" crowd!

[+] castornest|2 years ago|reply
^^^ I get night terrors thinking about gig in Boston fire city good sea food but wth is up with work environments that lure you in with free books and perks and it's like hell
[+] steviem|2 years ago|reply
I read around 150 books a year. Most of it is what I like to call "shitlit", or alternatively inconsequential literature.

This does not mean I am better or worse than anyone, just that my default state is reading. Friends eventually read books when recommended them and we talk about then.

Reading shouldnt be a target, it should be for enjoyment. I enjoy shitlit, but others may not.

[+] deebosong|2 years ago|reply
Respect.

I'm gonna start using "shitlit" from hereon out.

And also, there are people I respect who said they read 100+ books a year, and that you should, too. But while others in my circles were eager to jump on the train, for me, I thought it would be performative, and be about having read said 100+ books than digesting any of it. And what more, I recall that I best retain info via reading if I have skin in the game, rather than feeling like reading makes me appear more approvable to others.

All that is to say, it's good to hear from someone who reads a ton that a lot of your reading is kinda junk stuff (even if 150+ books a year is still a crazy metric – and as a tangent, people who ride bikes a ton say that a lot of their miles they rack up are junk miles, so I'm sure there's an equivalent of shitlit in any pursuit/ hobby/ interest/ endeavor).

[+] throwaway2037|2 years ago|reply
Do you blog or keep a list? I would be nice to see what you read. I tend to only read fiction written by women. (I read enough non-fiction via the Financial Times newspaper.) As a man, it is really eye-opening to "see the other (emotional) side". Usually, the stories are much more about character development, than trying to save the world ("do something big") that I often see in fiction written by men.
[+] theK|2 years ago|reply
How does this work? Is it a book every two days? Or three books on the weekend? How long is your commute and how do you keep off YouTube/Netflix in the evening?
[+] ErigmolCt|2 years ago|reply
Reading indeed should be a source of enjoyment. But sometimes you read coz you have to.
[+] spxneo|2 years ago|reply
if you read 150 books a year you are well ahead of the crowd. However it would be tough to apply all 150 books contents to real life. If you enjoy reading keep doing it. I would love to be able to read 150 books or let alone make the time for it.
[+] SeriousM|2 years ago|reply
Reading is part of my daily job, my education path, and in my free time. Even here on HN (ignoring the fact that the internet is no book). I have so many open tabs in my browser with articles I want to read because I see value in reading them eventually, but I can't keep up with all the new content that gets produced. Then I read the article with different eyes, the eyes of a youtube consumer. I have a huuuuge list of yt videos I still want to watch because of education, interest, or curiosity. Same here, I just have not the time to keep up with all the information that gets produced.

So what's the solution to that? Step back from the Internet, unsubscribe from non essential creators, close tabs without verifying if still needed, organize more and more? So trade fomo with organization? Start over with an empty browser, empty new email account?

What's your take on that?

[+] dmje|2 years ago|reply
I liked Oliver Burkeman on this with his “too many needles” idea [0].

Personally, I hoard a bunch of stuff using Omnivore and then on a semi regular basis I go through that and just throw away 90% of it. I find this two stage process useful: stage 1 is gathering All The Things, stage 2 is after a while sifting and keeping only the stuff I’m really interested in. Ultimately though, I try nowadays to apply a Buddhist angle on it: I hold all this stuff very lightly, knowing that it’s as close to infinite as makes no difference, and letting it go!

[0] https://www.oliverburkeman.com/river

[+] namaria|2 years ago|reply
Stop looking for content that might be interesting. There's simply way too much content that might interest you.

Start pulling content instead of pushing. Why are you looking for something to read? Boredom, research? Then go for the kill: what is the best option here? What is the most fun to you or the most important data you need? Prioritize mercilessly.

And filter aggressively. There is very little original and high quality content out there. Most of what is available is derivative and there's a long tail of very low quality content. Even if the topic or title seems interesting, for each 100 articles or books that sound interesting, there's likely 1 or 2 that are miles ahead of the crowd in terms of quality. Time is a great filter. Books on a given topic that are decades or centuries older than average are likely to be the source of much rehashing in a given field.

[+] paganel|2 years ago|reply
> Step back from the Internet, unsubscribe from non essential creators, close tabs without verifying if still needed

Pretty much, yes, that's the answer, at least for me. I've stopped keeping tabs on much of what's considered as being "new" and I've surrounded myself (literally, I think I might have a hoarding problem) with books that I consider to be close to my (hobby-ish) interests.

Even when it comes to those books I 100% realize that I won't have enough time to read them all, but whenever I see a mention/reference being made from a book that I'm currently reading to a second book it's good to know that I have that second book in my piles of books located around the house. Hard to logically explain, but it is what it is.

[+] dmje|2 years ago|reply
This sort of gamification is so widespread. It makes perfect sense to me in some areas, but in others (reading being one), it doesn’t at all. Reading is so personal and so important to savour, that the idea of “getting through the book” just seems to run counter to the whole spirit.

I’ve got a massive stack of books that I want to read and I feel some frustration sometimes that I can’t get through them quicker, because I want to read more! But this is an internal metric and not one I’ve ever compared to anything or anyone else.

I’m a fiction reader mainly; maybe this sense isn’t the case if I had a stack of business books? I don’t know.

[+] light_hue_1|2 years ago|reply
Goodreads statistics don't add pressure. They take it off. This article assumes that reading is a chore.

If I notice that I'm falling behind it's because I'm not taking enough me time. It's so easy to get wrapped up in work, research, deadlines, grants, students, etc. Then you burn out.

Reading stats are a way to keep that at bay. And even better it's cumulative and I can't cheat. If I've been really busy this month, I have to make even more room next month to catch up. That space gets filled with afternoons where I relax, sip tea, enjoy the view, read, learn something new, get a new perspective, or just live in another world for a while.

What an awful take on life and reading.

[+] xzel|2 years ago|reply
Beautifully put. Many metrics suffer from the glass half full vs half empty, perspective! They're just numbers at the end of the day. The important part is how you let them inform you. It is so easy to have the number goes up === good mentality, but many metrics hide the subjective and or collective truth. People need to take metrics in aggregate. Not everything is a race, not every number is important and many metrics are poor indicators for what you really want to measure.
[+] spxneo|2 years ago|reply
not just books but almost everything. there is a lot of anxiety seeing others put out stuff when you are barely stringing along. dont beat yourself up, focus on beating yourself.
[+] justinclift|2 years ago|reply
> dont beat yourself up, focus on beating yourself.

Maybe "use your time well" is a better thought?

Focusing on beating X just makes it a metric, and can be destructive when you'd be better off switching to some completely different activity instead.

When it's a metric, you can be tied to keep meeting it (or even just attempted to) well past it's usefulness.

[+] throwaway22032|2 years ago|reply
I'd always thought of it as being a perk of being a nerd that I didn't feel the need to "keep up" with fashions.

TV series, books, movies, bands, whatever. I'll partake if I fancy it, if I don't, who cares? I won't be cool? I never was cool, and hell, they changed what it was anyway.

[+] imgabe|2 years ago|reply
I think the Goodreads challenge is silly. Every year I set it to one book. I'm already beating it by 600%!

Why create fake tasks to stress yourself out? Reading should be enjoyable, not a chore. And not all books are created equal. If you spend all year reading Remembrance of Things Past is that bad because you only read one book instead of reading 50 forgettable pop psychology business book of the month books? I don't think so.

[+] rdlw|2 years ago|reply
I create fake tasks to stress myself out and compel myself to do things that make me feel better in the long run. I don't use Goodreads but I've been trying to read 20-24 books this year (I'm on track for 20). Obviously word count can drastically change the difficulty of this, but I'm not worrying about it since I know what I'm reading—if I only end up with 15 in December, but one of them is War and Peace, I'll still feel like I accomplished my goal.

Knowing that I'm a week behind or whatever tells me that I've been focusing on things that don't make me as happy as reading books does, and I should make an effort to spend less of my day watching YouTube and more of it reading books (that's what I spent that time on, not reading Proust).

I don't think I'd call it stress, I think anxiety is a more accurate term, but it's a helpful form of anxiety. I've also been reading with friends on a schedule, and the anxiety of having to be ready for our next meeting makes me read more too. Again, I find it really useful and it's made me generally happier day-to-day.

[+] vintermann|2 years ago|reply
I wonder if I should read this article to keep up with the idea of letting go.
[+] geuis|2 years ago|reply
I'm in a weird position. Can anyone provide a summary of this article?

I have all the time in the world to read things that are interesting (to me) and really absorb the content. But I've increasingly been noticing a "recipe article" trend with blog posts. People throw 100 words in when 10 will do. This article is an example.

I've even gotten to the point with certain important blog posts where I copy paste the content to chatgpt with a simple prompt to summarize the main points.

I'm not happy that I have to do this, but people have seemingly forgotten the art of getting to the f'ing point.

Your audience has an attention slightly shorter than this comment. Unless you catch their attention, none of your nuance is going to matter.

Generally I've found just skimming the first line of each paragraph works well, but even that is getting harder to find.

[+] throwaway2037|2 years ago|reply
One pattern that I have noticed amoungst people who work in the "letters" (writing, editing, publishing, journalism, etc.): Since their income is relatively very low for their highly skilled work (it usually requires a university degree), they cannot compete on social status (read: money/wealth). (Leave aside the many people in letters who come from a wealthy family; you will meet many of these people in Global Alpha cities, like London, NYC, Tokyo, etc.) Instead, they create a navel gazing world of intellectual status where they try to "read more than everyone else" and "have a strong opinion about everything". Thus, their peers "feel behind". I think this also well explains why the people in the letters, especially journalists, think Twitter is "so important". It is not. It is tiny echo-chamber in a massive online world.

I want to be very clear about what I wrote above: I am not criticizing the quality of their work. There are plenty of people in the letters who annoy me to no end with their navel gazing, but produce fantastic work. Please keep these two separate!

The best part of this article: She realises it is all bullshit. In short: Read what you like. And, don't worry too much about other people. Another good title for this article: "A Letter to My Younger Self".

[+] knallfrosch|2 years ago|reply
> This vibe has crept into so much online book discourse

I've always thought of and used reading as a solitary past-time.

[+] pdimitar|2 years ago|reply
Fairly first-world-problems kind of article but I get how the author's occupation might have easily led to that kind of stress, and I sympathize with them.

It spent too long just describing the FOMO and how it can creep up on your mental health though, for my taste at least.

It's true that the first step of fixing a problem is to identify it but I believe they could have just said "Even if it's your job to keep up, put limits in place because it will stress you to the point of ruining other aspects of your life".

So that article is kind of at the "beginner level in the area of how modern-day tech can stress you out", I suppose. Valuable for people who are stressed but haven't understood why just yet.

[+] ErigmolCt|2 years ago|reply
I had the feeling of failure connected with reading during my college experience. There was a book club. It was like an elite club that everyone wanted to be a part of. But in order to join, you had to be able to read a lot of books. I wasn't able to do it, and I never became a part of that club, yet two of my friends were there. I was jealous
[+] pas|2 years ago|reply
It's so strange because my experience is the opposite. I see a lot of content about reading and books (how there are no great books anymore, what was the best book, etc), fun facts and other trivia about authors, a few books getting made into movies (hello Dune, but I was thinking of the Martian and Ready Player One) ...

but I don't see any of this cultural expectation, this peer pressure. (One of my friends keep recommending me books and movies, but that's an exception. Okay, I saw Pikkety's Capital on a different friend's bookshelf. And that's it.)

...

and it's also interesting because I remember when half of the world was waiting for GRRM to stop trampolining!

I purposefully put down the last book somewhere around halfway because I thought the next one will be upon us soon, so it'll be great to pick it up and read the remaining story in one go. Hah.

And somehow after Banks died I stopped reading books. (Sure, no connection, but well, it would have been nice to get more of his funky space stories!)

[+] itscodingtime|2 years ago|reply
People can replace doom strolling or social media usage with some reading but after a certain point you will also need to give up certain hobbies or other activities to be as prolific as some other readers. Yeah you could spend one hour reading over playing that new online game with your friend or watching that new drama with your spouse but then you aren’t socializing. Or maybe you really care about flexibility so you spend the extra hour you have in the evening doing mobility drills and yoga. Or maybe you are trying to not fall behind the AI craze in tech so you spend an hour reading about the latest models and experimenting with them. Point is the person reading for one hour also isn’t doing what you doing. There’s also this underlying assumption that reading is always productive when there’s a lot of low quality content that’s easily consumed. Not every book is East of Eden.
[+] noduerme|2 years ago|reply
Social media has scrambled people's minds so badly. In the past, only narcissists and sociopaths needed to spend their time building a public image of themselves and checking in to see what people thought about it.

Scoring yourself with stars or notches for the books you read - or like my dad, a box of donuts every time he slept with a new woman - that's some fucked up abnormal unhealthy shit.

What this shows is that even the most innocent of online coms based on gamified popularity metrics will always trend toward feelings of loss of self-worth for the players.

Why? Because gamifying social interaction is a pretty good definition of sociopathy. Forcing the genpop to engage in that game 24/7, and to treat social interaction as a system of rewards, has spread the sociopathy from the founders like a disease to the rest of the world.