[TRDRVR]

Just a periodic reminder that 'Beyond the Pale' is a pro-colonialist phrase that many believe was was part of Britain's Centuries-long campaign to eliminate Irish culture.

https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2012/12/beyond-the-pale.h...

[arduanika]

That claim is not supported in the source you linked. In fact, it's directly contradicted several times. For example, toward the end, it quotes the OED:

"The theory that the origin of the phrase [‘beyond the pale’] relates to any of several specific regions, such as the area of Ireland formerly called the Pale … or the Pale of Settlement in Russia … is not supported by the early historical evidence and is likely to be a later rationalization.”

Throughout, your source draws a distinction between the histories of the separate phrases "beyond the pale" and "pale of settlement".

So I guess your statement might be true in the narrow sense that "many believe" the false etymology, just as you can find many who believe that the earth is flat. But that's not a good reason to go around chiding people for using a common expression.

[TRDRVR]

What about the link contradicts the point that it's pro-colonialist?

The etymology is in doubt for any particular area, not the concept of what a pale was and how it was used to colonize.

That is the point of "many believe."

Also keep in mind that the major doubter is the Oxford English Dictionary...

[selwoot]

That's the exact opposite of what the link you included says.

From https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2012/12/beyond-the-pale.h...

As for the relationship between the two expressions, the OED has this to say:

“The theory that the origin of the phrase [‘beyond the pale’] relates to any of several specific regions, such as the area of Ireland formerly called the Pale … or the Pale of Settlement in Russia … is not supported by the early historical evidence and is likely to be a later rationalization.”

[wrs]

Also from the article: a “pale” is a fence. “Beyond the pale” used to require a suffix (e.g., “beyond the pale of reason”) but eventually by itself started to be short for “beyond the pale of acceptable behavior”.

[TRDRVR]

You have successfully repeated the opinion of the Oxford English Dictionary after reading an entire article about how the British used Pales to colonize areas and define boundaries, but I'm not sure it's as cut and dry as you want it to be.

[tgv]

Is that one of those "it becomes true if you repeat it often enough?" There's at least one other attribution, and it's probably just as made up.

[DiggyJohnson]

And who cares if it was? I don't see a movement of the Irish to eradicate this phrase.

[TRDRVR]

Isn't this a forum for the intellectually curious?

I made no call to action.

I guess I should have known any time the information is something certain people would consider 'woke' it elicits a strong emotional reaction beyond the information itself.

My bad.

[stanleykm]

I’m willing to believe that because so much of our language is tainted in that way, however the blog you are referencing here doesn’t support what you are saying. You mention “many people” believe this so surely there are better sources.

[CoastalCoder]

Speaking as an Irishman, please be comforted to know that I truly don't care about the original meaning (whatever it truly was) of the phrase.

[TRDRVR]

As someone else who doesn't deal in identity politics, please know I don't care what you think of it and was trying to share information on a forum for the intellectually curious.

[clarity20]

There isn't much to "colonialism". It's just the establishment of colonies. In the many historical cases where the subject peoples were cannibals, I would have supported colonization.

[shrimp_emoji]

It makes sense you tacitly think colonialism is necessarily bad.

[justin_oaks]

Just a periodic reminder that the origin or words or phrases doesn't have bearing on their meaning today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy

[TRDRVR]

Incorrect from a formal logic standpoint.

It doesn't necessarily have bearing, but you cannot generalize the way you are doing.

Then no word would mean anything.