[orange_county]

You are going to have to cite "Many people love the suburbs" part. Most people live in the suburbs because that is the only cheap option available and that's because of zoning doesn't allow any other form of living.

And when cities do decide to upzone, they tend to centralize high density towers in one part of the city.

There are countless studies on why suburbs are just one big ponzi scheme. Strongtowns is an advocacy group that is trying to show more light into this issue.

Most of the tax revenue comes from downtowns where there are more density and more economic activity. Meanwhile a lot of the infrastructure cost are sunked into the suburbs that contribute little to the total tax revenue. The situation is even worst in California due to prop 13.

[sien]

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2021/12/16/america...

The numbers in 2021 of preference :

19% Urban, 46% Suburban, 35% rural.

[CapcomGo]

Where else are you going to live where you can have a decent sized lot with space?

[davidw]

A city with a park nearby where your kids will actually meet other kids to play with?

That's what life was like back when we lived in Italy a few years ago. It was pretty good in a lot of ways!

When we moved here to Oregon, we landed in a rental with a big, beautiful back yard that didn't see much use.

"Kids don't need a big yard to play, they need other kids" - and living in a denser area provides more kids.

That's not to say no one should have a yard or anything, just that it's really not all that it's cracked up to be.

[throw0101c]

> Where else are you going to live where you can have a decent sized lot with space?

Define "decent sized":

* https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+...

* https://www.google.com/maps/place/70+Jackman+Ave+Toronto,+ON

* https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Westminster+Ave,+Toron...

Or perhaps something with less square footage:

* https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+O...

* https://www.google.com/maps/place/125+Hampton+Ave,+Toronto,+...

At a density that can support public transit, cars are optional (not a necessity), you still have a (back)yard, and can have a garage (attached to a laneway). The above was how things were often built pre-WW2:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0

These places now cost quite a lot now because urban living is cool, but in roughly 1960-90s they were relatively cheap because all the WASPs moved to the suburbs because 'downtown was for immigrants'; one particular neighbourhood linked to above was >90% Polish during the time period:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roncesvalles,_Toronto

Just to the east of this neighbourhood is Little Portugal (and then further east China Town, and a little north Little Italy), and to the west a large Ukraine community used to be concentrated (with a smattering of Lithuanians).

[stetrain]

Nobody is saying people who want their own yard shouldn't be able to have that.

But those that don't have that as a priority, or can't afford it, should also have options.

Nobody is suggesting turning all suburbs into high-rises. But we need variety and supply in the market, so that people have choices that suit their lifestyle and income. Including the option to live closer to where they work to reduce the traffic on your roads.