This is giving strong "Using TDD to build a Sudoku solver" vibes[1].
Let's use some hot tools to solve a problem. Sorta solve a problem. Well, AI doesn't actually know abstract strategy, so maybe it'll work later with a different AI. But it autogenerated some basic logic that only had a few bugs!
There is no strategic understanding by any party of this tool (or the Sudoku one): the human "creator" nor the AI agent. Human knowledge is not advanced at all. The LLM can't tell you _why_ it makes its choices - maybe it could pretend to, but the descriptions themselves would probably be hallucinatory.
It's "just a game" but obviously this also applies to AI decision making in much more consequential settings. We should not strive just to come up with "the right answer" but ask _why_ it is the right answer.
Slay the Spire is my favorite video game of all time. I have 400+ hours on my Switch, 100+ hours on my phone, and 100+ hours on my PC. I'm obsessed.
I think creating an AI for this game is quite difficult, but I'd love a chat bot to discuss decisions with - especially a bot that could take in the current state.
It isn't enough to just take in the cards, but you should also take in relics, the counters on the relics, the potions, and what ascension you are at.
For example, you may have the cards to kill an enemy now - but it may be more beneficial to wait - either to increment the counter on a relic, or to draw a card that does an effect on a fatal hit.
The main thing that’s fun about these games is figuring out how to gain insights about how to play better. I think offloading the theorizing and problem solving in any way would make the game less fun. See also: most (not all) use of strategy guides and walkthroughs
> For example, you may have the cards to kill an enemy now - but it may be more beneficial to wait - either to increment the counter on a relic, or to draw a card that does an effect on a fatal hit.
How is this any different than chess?
Solving this using a LLM is novel and interesting, but I'd feel confident in claiming that writing an AI bot for STS using "classic" AI methods would be pretty easy, actually.
At some point I stopped playing it (after, well, 100s of hours), because somehow I felt that its only getting harder without me getting any reward outside of the raw challenge itself - which then feels just like working.
Is there anything I didn't really notice that feels rewarding on higher levels?
Watch Baalord's videos on youtube. Dude had a run of like twenty A20+Heart wins in a row with different characters. And he doesn't start over constantly like I do.
An LLM is definitely the best tool for "solving" a game like Slay the Spire or any game that require strategic thinking. Sounds like a fun project and it would be crazy impressive if the solution was better than random chance.
Fun. I do like how you can pretty easily create an LLM to do a whole bunch of tasks that it wasn't designed to do, so long as you don't particularly care about how well it does it.
I tried creating a robot driver back when I first started playing around with ChatGPT. I told it the list of commands it could output, like "Turn Left [n] degrees" and "Raise right hand [n] degrees" and "Say [x]." I then gave it instructions and it seemed to work just fine.
"All" I would need to do then would be to have a basic robot, program an API to drive it, and add voice-to-text to send commands to ChatGPT, and I would have a pretty basic voice-controlled robot, where the "brains" were coded in five minutes. At least good enough for a demo.
As an aside, what is the current state of "LLMs for NPCs" in video games?
I don't really game or follow the industry, but I have to imagine both modders and publishers are working furiously to introduce more natural conversational experiences?
0. What conversation? Current LLMs don't really sound like conversation.
1. Running LLMs in real time for NPC conversation is a no no because they don't have extra cpu/gpu time for that, they need to have 8k ultra HDR at 240 fps.
2. Even if they did, to have a 'natural' conversation experience they'd have to ask their players to ... type text into the game. The tendency is to remove even text based predefined options and replace them with icons - see Fallout 4.
3. Even if they somehow got past 1 and 2, that would mean user generated content into the game and you'll soon see screenshots online of people playing the latest open world rpg thingy and generating furry porn inside it without any mods. That's not wholesome family fun, only violence is.
4. But don't worry, they will use LLMs to pregenerate bland content and stuff it in every corner of the world. If we're lucky, maybe they'll even human check it before release.
That being said, I'd enjoy a new generation of text adventure games that don't have you guess at what the parser can understand. But just the parser for my input.
There's a PC game called "Suck Up!" where you play as a vampire trying to trick people into inviting you into their home so you can feed off them. All the NPCs are powered by an LLM and the game is all about using actual persuasive speech to appeal to their different personalities to convince them to let you in.
lscharen|1 year ago
Let's use some hot tools to solve a problem. Sorta solve a problem. Well, AI doesn't actually know abstract strategy, so maybe it'll work later with a different AI. But it autogenerated some basic logic that only had a few bugs!
[1] https://ravimohan.blogspot.com/2007/04/learning-from-sudoku-...
aarestad|1 year ago
It's "just a game" but obviously this also applies to AI decision making in much more consequential settings. We should not strive just to come up with "the right answer" but ask _why_ it is the right answer.
cyrialize|1 year ago
I think creating an AI for this game is quite difficult, but I'd love a chat bot to discuss decisions with - especially a bot that could take in the current state.
It isn't enough to just take in the cards, but you should also take in relics, the counters on the relics, the potions, and what ascension you are at.
For example, you may have the cards to kill an enemy now - but it may be more beneficial to wait - either to increment the counter on a relic, or to draw a card that does an effect on a fatal hit.
barbariangrunge|1 year ago
Chabsff|1 year ago
How is this any different than chess?
Solving this using a LLM is novel and interesting, but I'd feel confident in claiming that writing an AI bot for STS using "classic" AI methods would be pretty easy, actually.
mangosteenjuice|1 year ago
The people I used to play with are hitting 10,000+.
I now only play deckbuilders, citybuilders, and roguelikes. I'm very excited about STS 2.
anonyfox|1 year ago
Is there anything I didn't really notice that feels rewarding on higher levels?
lulesp|1 year ago
suzzer99|1 year ago
airstrike|1 year ago
infecto|1 year ago
candiddevmike|1 year ago
courseofaction|1 year ago
bugbuddy|1 year ago
/s
raincole|1 year ago
AlphaGo Zero isn't LLM. The Dota bot that beat pro gamers is not LLM.
If this is an ad of Amazon Q, I'm not sure whether it's a good one.
worldsayshi|1 year ago
SamBam|1 year ago
I tried creating a robot driver back when I first started playing around with ChatGPT. I told it the list of commands it could output, like "Turn Left [n] degrees" and "Raise right hand [n] degrees" and "Say [x]." I then gave it instructions and it seemed to work just fine.
"All" I would need to do then would be to have a basic robot, program an API to drive it, and add voice-to-text to send commands to ChatGPT, and I would have a pretty basic voice-controlled robot, where the "brains" were coded in five minutes. At least good enough for a demo.
aaronharnly|1 year ago
I don't really game or follow the industry, but I have to imagine both modders and publishers are working furiously to introduce more natural conversational experiences?
nottorp|1 year ago
0. What conversation? Current LLMs don't really sound like conversation.
1. Running LLMs in real time for NPC conversation is a no no because they don't have extra cpu/gpu time for that, they need to have 8k ultra HDR at 240 fps.
2. Even if they did, to have a 'natural' conversation experience they'd have to ask their players to ... type text into the game. The tendency is to remove even text based predefined options and replace them with icons - see Fallout 4.
3. Even if they somehow got past 1 and 2, that would mean user generated content into the game and you'll soon see screenshots online of people playing the latest open world rpg thingy and generating furry porn inside it without any mods. That's not wholesome family fun, only violence is.
4. But don't worry, they will use LLMs to pregenerate bland content and stuff it in every corner of the world. If we're lucky, maybe they'll even human check it before release.
That being said, I'd enjoy a new generation of text adventure games that don't have you guess at what the parser can understand. But just the parser for my input.
Fearlesspancake|1 year ago
nkjnlknlk|1 year ago
nottorp|1 year ago
unknown|1 year ago
[deleted]