[bioneuralnet]

My first thought is "WTF!" But my second is this: every single person who's ever criticized Boeing is going to die (eventually). With so many people in a position to notice and speak out about Boeing's issues, it isn't terribly surprising that a few deaths have occurred.

Combine that with one headline-grabbing (apparent) suicide during a deposition, and we're now all primed to notice these deaths and attribute intent.

[cbsmith]

> With so many people in a position to notice and speak out about Boeing's issues, it isn't terribly surprising that a few deaths have occurred.

Also, let's not kid ourselves, even if Boeing doesn't retaliate (and there is a lot of reason to think they have), being a whistleblower adds a tremendous amount of stress & disruption to your life. Whatever your life expectancy was before you were a whistleblower was, it's going to be lower (likely MUCH lower) afterwards. It's a terrible price to pay, which is why they deserve as much protection & support as possible.

[jen729w]

Indeed. In my home town we had the ‘metric martyr’, a greengrocer who defied EU law and continued selling bananas in metric measures.

There was a whole court thing, he lost, and then he died aged 39 of a heart attack.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/metric-...

[webninja]

That’s an awful lot of BS to swallow. I know the blue pill is nice and all. But just know, the day you finally doubt what you’ve typed, the red pill is there waiting for you when you’re ready to see fact over fiction. But I warn and caution you in hopes of deterring you: the Truth is usually more depressing than the fantasy.

[janalsncm]

I guess what’s missing is the denominator. How many Boeing whistleblowers are there? It’s a nice little math problem.

Let’s say both of the whistleblowers were age 50. The probability of a 50 year old man dying in a year is 0.6%. So the probability of 2 or more of them dying in a year is 1 - (the probability of exactly zero dying in a year + the probability of exactly one dying in a year). 1 - (A+B).

A is (1-0.006)^N. B is 0.006N(1-0.006)^(N-1). At 60 A is about 70% and B is about 25% making it statistically insignificant.

But they died in the same 2 month period, so that 0.006 should be 0.001. If you rerun the same calculation, it’s 356.

[mulmen]

You are ignoring literally every other variable, especially the ones that are likely common to whistleblowers in general, Boeing employees in general, and Boeing whistleblowers in particular.

Characteristics like having spent a career building airplanes surrounded by all kinds of mechanical and chemical hazards.

Whistleblowing itself is extremely stressful for the attention it draws, the personal and professional relationships it strains, the media attention and of course the rampant speculation of assassination.

Does personal health influence the psychology of a whistleblower? If you get a terminal diagnosis would you be more likely to spill the beans?

[coldtea]

Everything is going to die eventually.

This is some very specific, public, whistleblowers, in the span of months. Not some pool of thousands, or even hundreds people with mere "potential to criticize".

[arp242]

Unlikely things happen. And there have been more than two (former) Boeing employees who have come forward, most of whom managed to survive.

[constantcrying]

Sure, but how many people are whistleblowers about Boeing misbehavior. I would guess at most a hundred, the chances that two of them die in such a short time seems low. What are the odds that an apparently healthy person just drops dead in two weeks over the span of maybe two years. Certainly seems somewhat unlikely.

[mulmen]

In the absence of data everyone is apparently healthy. That’s the point. There are more mundane explanations than a Boeing assassination conspiracy.

[graywh]

32 whistleblowers in the last 3 years

[throwup238]

That’s a lot of assassinations! I bet Boeing gets a volume discount.

[coliveira]

People should stop and do some very serious investigation about a company that has 32 whistleblowers just in the last 3 years....

[orblivion]

Out of how many wistleblowers? How does that compare to other people with the same demographics?

[tootie]

Where did you get that number?

[dustfinger]

Where did you get that number from? Do you have links?

[CrazyPyroLinux]

> (apparent) suicide

The one where he specifically told his family beforehand that he wasn't suicidal...

[mattmaroon]

My ex killed herself not long after telling me she wasn't suicidal. This may surprise you, but suicidal people often lie about being suicidal. Or, they rapidly go from not being suicidal to being so. Or, due to mental illness, they've lost a grip on reality.

[dralley]

>The one where he specifically told his family beforehand that he wasn't suicidal...

This game of telephone is absurd.

His family has said no such thing. A proclaimed "friend of the family" claimed he told her this.

[ChrisRR]

If only mental health were that simple. Many people aren't suicidal until it gets too much and then the thoughts take over

[danielfoster]

Not to mention how old some of them must be.

[dingnuts]

well this guy was 45 and described as healthy in the article, but shows up to the hospital with a mysterious lung problem and then gets MRSA

it's not exactly a smoking gun but you can't blame the guy's age, either. 45 is just middle age, I hope

[delfinom]

OR, we are living in a simulation and this is just a joke.

I mean just the other day, the emergency slide fell off a Boeing aircraft and landed essentially, in the backyard of the lawyer suing Boeing. Lol

[paul7986]

omg lol https://www.businessinsider.com/missing-delta-emergency-slid...

[michaelmrose]

The proper comparison is not the size of the employee pool over a human lifespan its the size of the list of people actively advocating or publicly known to be testifying against Boeing over the course of a month.

[tomca32]

well yeah but the previous whistleblower committed suicide after literally telling his family "If anything happens to me it's not suicide".

A month later another whistleblower who was in good health dies suddenly and unexpectedly.

I don't think it's surprising to think that this combination of events is extremely unlikely.

[BobaFloutist]

> well yeah but the previous whistleblower committed suicide after literally telling his family "If anything happens to me it's not suicide".

I mean if I had dedicated my life to taking Boeing down and was contemplating suicide, I'd consider saying that too.

[behringer]

This one might be, but the first one is almost certainly no suicide.

[tootie]

This is not alleged as a suicide. It was acute bacterial infection.

[andreygrehov]

Not that I disagree with you, but since the is the most upvoted comment - had this happened in, say, Russia, people would say: "The bloody Putin's totalitarianism!". But in the US, well: "[...] every single person who's ever criticized Boeing is going to die". This is absolutely hilarious and deserves the best comment of the year award.

[vicary]

45 y/o and healthy though?

[ChrisRR]

No-one is truly healthy. Everything is a game of statistics

You may be totally healthy and the peak of physical fitness and a sudden stroke destroys you. Everyone can improve their chances, but no-one can guarantee they're indestructible.

[akira2501]

> every single person who's ever criticized Boeing is going to die (eventually)

That's extremely tautological.

> it isn't terribly surprising that a few deaths have occurred.

It's surprising they have so many whistle blowers that more than one has died in a short span of time, in particular, before the investigations over their allegations have been satisfactorily and publicly completed.

> and we're now all primed to notice these deaths and attribute intent.

That doesn't mean it's pointless to ask questions and to investigate further. There's a lot of people who seem very eager for this all to just "go away." That should make anyone, let alone a forum of hackers, somewhat suspicious.

[sxg]

I'm baffled by this comment. It's exceedingly rare for two middle-aged and otherwise healthy people to die without warning.

> With so many people in a position to notice and speak out about Boeing's issues

So many? Both were whistleblowers of which there are allegedly no more than 32 in the last few years.

[genewitch]

I'd say it was exceedingly rare for people in that cohort to die suddenly without warning. Now, though?

and one died after ventilation?

[dudeinjapan]

2 down 30 to go.

[cbsmith]

> I'm baffled by this comment. It's exceedingly rare for two middle-aged and otherwise healthy people to die without warning.

No. It happens every day. Yes, if you pick two random middle-aged people at random, it's exceedingly rare for both of them to die without warning. However, if you pick a large population of otherwise healthy middle-aged people, the probably that two of them might die without warning is actually quite high.

The question is, how large is the population? If the union is to be believed (and there's a lot of credibility there), Boeing whistleblowers are a pretty large population. Add in to that the stress & disruption of being a whistleblower, and then layer on the stress from any retaliation from Boeing (which allegedly is happening on a daily basis), and the probability of two of them dying around the same time isn't really that low.

e.g., if you assume a mortality rate of 1 in 1000/yr (which seems very low, considering their circumstance) and a population of 100, the odds of two of them dying over the course of a year is over 50% (1-0.999^100)^2 = 53.29%.

[cbsmith]

> Both were whistleblowers of which there are allegedly no more than 32 in the last few years.

Yeah, out of a population of 32, it's unlikely to happen. It seems likely that this number is grossly underrepresenting the size of the population. Maybe whistleblowers are being targeted, maybe there are a lot more than 32, maybe both of those are true, but it seems unlikely that both of them are false.

[dialup_sounds]

I'm baffled by this comment. It's exceedingly rare for two middle-aged and otherwise healthy people to die without warning.

Suicide is the 7th leading cause of death for men 55-62. It's considerably more common than murder.

Both were whistleblowers of which there are allegedly no more than 32 in the last few years.

Barnett hadn't worked for Boeing since 2017, and was being deposed as part of his appeal of his original whistleblower complaint. It makes no sense to think that someone trying to silence him would wait until 7 years and one Netflix documentary have transpired.

[dralley]

No, he did not. This is literally false. Someone who claims they are a "close family friend" who talked with him occasionally "at get-togethers, birthdays, celebrations and whatnot" told a local news affiliate that he told her that in private.

Which is something quite different from him personally reaching out to the local news affiliate and telling them that.

[lobf]

If this were true it should be trivial to prove. Can you cite anything?

[xhkkffbf]

Not to be cynical or make any claim about this particular case, but if a person were going to commit suicide as a kind of FU to someone, then it seems like making this kind of statement before adds an extra layer of FU.

[squigz]

How many would have to die under these circumstances for you to consider they're not natural deaths?

[mulmen]

As many as it takes to leave even a shred of evidence.

[volkk]

at LEAST one more...then i'll raise an eyebrow!