Driving without a rear window isn’t a big deal - see, for example, nearly every cargo delivery van on Earth. I have to imagine the stubborn refusal to add standard physical controls back to the cockpit has more potential for trouble than an impeded rear view.
I wonder if there’s NHTSA data on this specifically for passenger cars? Maybe incidents caused by blocking the driver’s rear view (with furniture or people or whatever) versus fumbling around with a touchscreen or a joystick?
What I'd really like to see is less software in an EV, complete isolation between higher and lower functions, normal physical controls and an ability to run the thing entirely disconnected from the manufacturer's dragnet. It should be able to charge and be driven with all critical instruments working fully disconnected from anything and without software updates.
My colleagues who drive EVs regularly are always having a panic about software updates which break things.
I currently don't own a car as I live in a big city but I do rent one occasionally and did own a Model S for a very short time. If I was to buy a car I'd like an EV next time, but not in the current state of things.
Just because it can be done doesn’t mean it’s not a worse driving experience. Visibility has been getting gradually worse for a long time (I presume for crash safety reasons). I learned to drive on my dad's old early-90s era Maxima, which had the best visibility I've ever experienced in a car, and I still miss it!
Let me ask you this, how much do you drive? Although I don’t drive much anymore, just daily to and from work, there were periods I would have to drive 250-800km twice per week to get to site(Sweden is a pretty big country).
The rear view mirror is absolute advantage. It’s the only way to know wtf is going on right behind you.
> Driving without a rear window isn’t a big deal - see, for example, nearly every cargo delivery van on Earth.
Yeah, it's totally fine, as long as you have both side mirrors. It'd be nice if they put bigger mirrors on the side if they're killing the rear window though. Although they're pushing a screen to replace the mirror, I guess.
I haven't used one of those in a while, but I did have a rental with a screen / mirror and found it really strained my eyes to change from far focus on driving to near focus on the screen... Might be better when the screen is not also a mirror, I could kind of see the mirrored image if I was far focused even if the screen was on... it was pretty distracting until I figured out how to turn off the screen part.
I can switch the camera in my car to replace the normal mirror. This is useful when the trunk is full.
I hate it, though, because it forces your eyes to quickly and repeatedly adapt to short vision (the image is close to you), then again on the road etc.
There is no such a problem with the normal mirror which shows objects far away so you you don't need to adapt when switching between forward and back view
Reading https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2908311/, it can take half a second (for the oldest age group, in the dark) before an eye even starts to accommodate and, if I’m interpreting RTI correctly, easily another half a second to accommodate. Makes me wonder how sharp an image one needs to see in the rear view mirror to drive. Or do drivers really look to such a screen for over a second while driving?
And of course, getting rid of the front window, too, would get rid of the accommodation issue, but I do not see that being accepted by car drivers soon.
> it forces your eyes to quickly and repeatedly adapt to short vision
Sounds like a big nono for "older" people. I'm having difficulty focusing on the dashboard nowadays. Progressive glasses could fix it, but the short distance area is at the bottom, so you would have to tilt your head alot to see the mirror.
I bought one of those well reviewed mirror dash cameras and it replaced the center rear view mirror. I hated it and returned it because this extra visual burden and couldn't understand why anyone liked these.
When backing up out of a parking space I much prefer the turnaround method since I lose all my periphery vision that keeps from backing up into the path of other vehicles or people, etc. My back up camera even has a warning for that basically saying "be aware of your surroundings while backing up, because this tiny cone of vision on the screen definitely won't help you with that". Of course modern cars are so high up I can't see anything directly behind me without the camera.
Is it physically possible to mitigate this issue by placing some sort of lens on the screen, so you would need to actually focus "to far" in order to see it?
> "a new kind of immersive rear occupant experience" where passengers are "cocooned"
I am familiar with this design, the passenger is cocooned by a ceiling height designed for a person less than 5'6 (because the car looks way cooler on the outside). If you are any taller you get the transformative experience of a ride in "landscape mode" with your head rotated 90 degrees.
You probably don't spend a lot of time staring out of the rear window though. The windows at the side are still there and the glass roof now goes further back.
1) Driver's rear view is solved by using a camera, but what about rear passengers. Rear window provides natural light to come in. It might get pretty dark inside without it.
2) How will it impact the DMV driving test? In a recent driving test for a kid, the instructor explicitly said that if the kid reversed by looking at the camera view in the screen, she will fail the kid. With this car, there is no rearview window, so reverse can only be done by looking at the camera view, there's no looking back while reversing.
> if the kid reversed by looking at the camera view in the screen, she will fail the kid
That's interesting, my compact sedan doesn't have a camera, and you can still see something in the rear view mirror, so I feel perfectly comfortable reversing into tight spaces or over longer distances.
Sometimes I drive rentals (different Toyotas) that have cameras, and I vastly prefer the camera for reversing. When leaving a parking spot, you can immediately see the cars in the lane you're reversing into. You can see directly behind the rear bumper (kids, dogs, forgotten baggage). Running over someone's kid in a busy parking lot is something I'm really terrified of, and the camera eases my mind a lot.
When I did a driving test in the US (which was admittedly a complete joke compared to a UK one I did two decades earlier) I explicitly got told that it was fine to use the camera alone.
Maybe its not a big difference long term, but a camera is 2D, whereas a mirror provides a 3D image with depth, allowing to assess distances naturally. It also has a much better resolution and dynamic range, works much better in the dark, etc.
On the flip side, camera rear view can have automatic gain, so you can see much better in the dark. It can also have a better view due to placement. And as a bonus, no need to adjust between drivers.
My car has both in a combined unit, flip down for regular mirror and up for camera. While I initially thought it would be a gimmick, it didn't take me long to realize I preferred the camera view.
That said I wouldn't want to have a car with camera only, I don't trust the electronics that much and a mirror works better in certain situations.
My biggest issue with Audi and others that try replacing mirrors with cameras is that you need to refocus your eyes. That takes time. I have the same issue with the speedometer: I'm curious how many accidents have already happened because the driver is mandated to remove focus from the road just to check their speed.
The HUD is amazing. Interior screens are only great while not driving.
Whilst it feels strange initially and I caught myself thinking why?
Most car reverse cameras for 360 degree cameras provide very good visibility outside of the rear of the car. I don't necessarily see the problem with having a rear windscreen, but that's up to the buyer
My recent model Subaru Ascent came with a "smart mirror". When enabled, the rear view mirror is actually a display, showing a view of what a rear camera, mounted high in the rear window, sees. This is not the backup camera, it's got one of those too, down by the license plate.
At first I had a little bit of skepticism. I figured it would be useful when the back is full of cargo or whatever, but limited beyond that.
A year on and I scarcely use the "real" mirror. The image on the camera is brighter at night, has less obstruction of the cars pillars and such, and it's automatic gain control reduces the amount of blinding a big truck behind me can cause
On cars I did drive a rear view camera allows to stop exactly were you want but gives a poor situation awareness. Also the wider camera angle the smaller are objects on a screen - there is no such problem when you can turn your head around to see with your eyes.
Aside from regulation, I've had a few (rare) occurences in a Tesla where it's lagged or a camera has glitched out for a few seconds. Those few seconds could be critical on a road at speed.
It also disallows drivers behind the vehicle to see through it to see what’s in front. Of course there are plenty such vehicles on the road already (trucks, RVs, etc), but it would probably be detrimental to road safety if this feature becomes popular among automakers.
Or, they could "solve" it by installing extra screens on the walls showing ads for package holidays. Of course, that would raise the temperature inside, but it's something that could be solved with extra AC, which would need large batteries and more frequent stops, but that could be solved by... seems to be the way of "innovation" these days, we no longer fix what's broken, but break what works and charge extra for it.
I find it interesting that it's called a Swedish car company when it's owned by a Chinese car company and none of its cars are produced in Sweden. Is national attribution of companies meaningless?
Maybe every company should open an office in Sweden and call itself Swedish.
[+] [-] culturestate|1 year ago|reply
I wonder if there’s NHTSA data on this specifically for passenger cars? Maybe incidents caused by blocking the driver’s rear view (with furniture or people or whatever) versus fumbling around with a touchscreen or a joystick?
[+] [-] cjk2|1 year ago|reply
What I'd really like to see is less software in an EV, complete isolation between higher and lower functions, normal physical controls and an ability to run the thing entirely disconnected from the manufacturer's dragnet. It should be able to charge and be driven with all critical instruments working fully disconnected from anything and without software updates.
My colleagues who drive EVs regularly are always having a panic about software updates which break things.
I currently don't own a car as I live in a big city but I do rent one occasionally and did own a Model S for a very short time. If I was to buy a car I'd like an EV next time, but not in the current state of things.
[+] [-] yowzadave|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] Gud|1 year ago|reply
The rear view mirror is absolute advantage. It’s the only way to know wtf is going on right behind you.
[+] [-] toast0|1 year ago|reply
Yeah, it's totally fine, as long as you have both side mirrors. It'd be nice if they put bigger mirrors on the side if they're killing the rear window though. Although they're pushing a screen to replace the mirror, I guess.
I haven't used one of those in a while, but I did have a rental with a screen / mirror and found it really strained my eyes to change from far focus on driving to near focus on the screen... Might be better when the screen is not also a mirror, I could kind of see the mirrored image if I was far focused even if the screen was on... it was pretty distracting until I figured out how to turn off the screen part.
[+] [-] senectus1|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] BrandoElFollito|1 year ago|reply
I hate it, though, because it forces your eyes to quickly and repeatedly adapt to short vision (the image is close to you), then again on the road etc.
There is no such a problem with the normal mirror which shows objects far away so you you don't need to adapt when switching between forward and back view
[+] [-] Someone|1 year ago|reply
And of course, getting rid of the front window, too, would get rid of the accommodation issue, but I do not see that being accepted by car drivers soon.
[+] [-] rlv-dan|1 year ago|reply
Sounds like a big nono for "older" people. I'm having difficulty focusing on the dashboard nowadays. Progressive glasses could fix it, but the short distance area is at the bottom, so you would have to tilt your head alot to see the mirror.
[+] [-] bonton89|1 year ago|reply
When backing up out of a parking space I much prefer the turnaround method since I lose all my periphery vision that keeps from backing up into the path of other vehicles or people, etc. My back up camera even has a warning for that basically saying "be aware of your surroundings while backing up, because this tiny cone of vision on the screen definitely won't help you with that". Of course modern cars are so high up I can't see anything directly behind me without the camera.
[+] [-] unixhero|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] greenish_shores|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] Doctor_Fegg|1 year ago|reply
That sounds awful.
(But then I always take the window seat in trains.)
[+] [-] blitzar|1 year ago|reply
I am familiar with this design, the passenger is cocooned by a ceiling height designed for a person less than 5'6 (because the car looks way cooler on the outside). If you are any taller you get the transformative experience of a ride in "landscape mode" with your head rotated 90 degrees.
[+] [-] voidUpdate|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] IanCal|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] tra3|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] chgs|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] rvnx|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] philjohn|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] aaronbrethorst|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] yumraj|1 year ago|reply
1) Driver's rear view is solved by using a camera, but what about rear passengers. Rear window provides natural light to come in. It might get pretty dark inside without it.
2) How will it impact the DMV driving test? In a recent driving test for a kid, the instructor explicitly said that if the kid reversed by looking at the camera view in the screen, she will fail the kid. With this car, there is no rearview window, so reverse can only be done by looking at the camera view, there's no looking back while reversing.
[+] [-] Toutouxc|1 year ago|reply
That's interesting, my compact sedan doesn't have a camera, and you can still see something in the rear view mirror, so I feel perfectly comfortable reversing into tight spaces or over longer distances.
Sometimes I drive rentals (different Toyotas) that have cameras, and I vastly prefer the camera for reversing. When leaving a parking spot, you can immediately see the cars in the lane you're reversing into. You can see directly behind the rear bumper (kids, dogs, forgotten baggage). Running over someone's kid in a busy parking lot is something I'm really terrified of, and the camera eases my mind a lot.
[+] [-] jen20|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] syslog|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] bad_username|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] photonbeam|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] magicalhippo|1 year ago|reply
My car has both in a combined unit, flip down for regular mirror and up for camera. While I initially thought it would be a gimmick, it didn't take me long to realize I preferred the camera view.
That said I wouldn't want to have a car with camera only, I don't trust the electronics that much and a mirror works better in certain situations.
[+] [-] tommiegannert|1 year ago|reply
The HUD is amazing. Interior screens are only great while not driving.
[+] [-] olliej|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] NoPicklez|1 year ago|reply
Most car reverse cameras for 360 degree cameras provide very good visibility outside of the rear of the car. I don't necessarily see the problem with having a rear windscreen, but that's up to the buyer
[+] [-] paradox460|1 year ago|reply
At first I had a little bit of skepticism. I figured it would be useful when the back is full of cargo or whatever, but limited beyond that.
A year on and I scarcely use the "real" mirror. The image on the camera is brighter at night, has less obstruction of the cars pillars and such, and it's automatic gain control reduces the amount of blinding a big truck behind me can cause
[+] [-] citrin_ru|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] discordance|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] troupo|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] eCa|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] bayindirh|1 year ago|reply
Nothing beats having a proper following distance for safety.
[+] [-] maxglute|1 year ago|reply
https://news.samsung.com/global/the-safety-truck-could-revol...
[+] [-] rbirkby|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] surfingdino|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] gherkinnn|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] inejge|1 year ago|reply
Tatra 87[1] would like a word. I'm sure there are more if you're versed in automotive history.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_87
[+] [-] blendo|1 year ago|reply
That’s good when you’re driving 80mph on the freeway, but way too big around town.
I’d like to see drivers in US cities have the option for something smaller, like Renault’s new Duo, the replacement for the Twizy:
https://insideevs.com/news/615402/renault-mobilize-duo-is-ne...
[+] [-] dgan|1 year ago|reply
Lol finally! Auto industry catching up with the latest and greatest software trend!
[+] [-] beretguy|1 year ago|reply
No thank you. Also, it’s ugly.
[+] [-] killingtime74|1 year ago|reply
Maybe every company should open an office in Sweden and call itself Swedish.
[+] [-] blitzar|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] postepowanieadm|1 year ago|reply