I have worked with Urushi, aka Japanese lacquer. You get a rash, some people never get over it. Others do get over it, and I did. Years ago I was in the black thumb club. I could stick my thumb in Urushi, and not get a rash. Since Urushi was a big thing in Japan (and other places), people who worked harvesting or packaging or using it either got over or did not. I have a friend who did not. He said he could walk down the street and detect if there was raw Urushi anywhere near by.
I still got a "tingle" even when I did not get a rash.
The way to tolerate the adaptation is hot water - spray water as hot as you can stand (without damage) on the affected area and you will get substantial relief for about 12 hours. The relief of hot water on an affected area cannot be understated. A friend used the word "orgasmic" and it fits. I can almost imagine someone purposefully getting the rash just to take a shower.
Finally in this bizarre world of Urushi - when it is cured (warm & humid), NOT dried, the chemical properties change so the coating does not cause problems. If you see photos of Chinese or Japanese rice bows ls that are red or black they are probably wooden bowl coated with Urushi and cured. Urushi as used to make eating utensils.
There is more. There are an incredible number of decorative techniques. Supposedly each village had its own. One of the best is Rankaku. Tiny chips of quail egg shells are placed to form a pattern.
> The way to tolerate the adaptation is hot water - spray water as hot as you can stand (without damage) on the affected area and you will get substantial relief for about 12 hours.
Yes. Similar to poison oak (in irritant effect), we've also got poodle-dog bush out in California. It thrives in post-fire environments, and isn't as well-known as poison oak. The reaction to it is often even worse than for poison oak. And so, before I was better versed in the "fun" plants of our local mountains, I had a run in with some poodle plants, and.. that was a rough few weeks.
I tried everything to make it more tolerable, and hot water was by far the best. The effect didn't last forever, but it was remarkable how it a) was actually pleasurable and b) muted the itchiness for a fairly significant amount of time (although still not as long as I would have liked..).
It's probably still best to avoid hot water until you've done a good job of getting the offending substance off (as best as possible). And near scalding water isn't otherwise great for the skin, so it's probably not something one should do all the time.
I wonder if the benefits you get from applying hot water is from the heat itself. Heat activates heat shock proteins in the skin and suppresses/alters inflammation. [1] There are people who use infrared heat lamps to treat autoimmune skin disorders.
would love to see some pics of your work. Since you seem to know about Japanese craft techniques - do you know what sort of adhesive is used in Japanese gold leaf application? I am not able to use bole or animal hide glue due (vegan) but was curious if the Japanese have some rice-paste based method.
I have read that the urushiol is also present in the skin of the mango fruit.
I don’t know if those who consume a lot of mangoes or have grown up with mango trees around them are immune to poison oak’s urushiol(arguably much more concentrated) as its present in stems, saps, leaves, skin more than the flesh..but they likely have more tolerance.
Also..in India, we don’t burn mango leaves or branches as it increases respiratory risks..which ..now that I think about it..is likely due to the urushiol
It must be minute quantities -- if any at all. In developing countries in Asia, it is pretty common to eat the whole mango without peeling it first. (Before anyone responds to this comment: Yes, I have personally seen this eating style in many different countries.) Usually, you just cut two pieces: top and bottom, then discard the seed. It also makes it easier to hold the cut fruit with your hands without getting too sticky / dirty.
However, when picking mangoes, you need to be careful about the sap that comes from the broken stem. That will cause a rash, and also disfigure the fruit's skin (which hurts market value). You can Google about it.
huh, every time I eat a kiwi my lips get itchy. I just googled and it doesn’t look like it contains urushiol, but it does contain an allergen called “actinidin”.
This thread made me realize I’m allergic to kiwi’s…
I am odd: I am immune to poison oak but allergic to mango flesh. Poison oak only gives me a minor issue around cuts or scratches, but the last time I had mango, I got hives anywhere my skin experienced pressure (like itching a scratch or wearing a seat belt or an elastic waste band or belt) for a week and a half. I developed the mango thing as an adult after eating like a dozen or two dried mangos one day
I do remember being told to be careful of the mango sap near where the stem attaches and to wash and cut if off before eating, never got any rashes though. Have eaten tons of mangoes directly from the fruit, and wasn’t washed every time.
Am curious now if I’m brave enough to test poison oak immunity. Probably not..
My mom grew up in South Africa, '40s and '50s, she always made us wash our lips after eating mango to avoid a rash. Only later did I discover I didn't need to, I always assumed the rash-causing compound has been bred out of modern mangos.
The first few bites when fire ants came to Texas hurt. The next few hurt less. Then they came to live in the walls of my parents’ house. I would get multiple bites every day and wake up with a dozen more after every night. It wasn’t that long before they didn’t hurt or leave a bump at all anymore. First hand education in how the body develops resistance to toxins.
I need this for mosquitos. They tend to go for my ankles and 1 bite is still fine, but as soon as I get 2+ the swelling up and itching just multiplies 10x.
Does anyone know why desensitization works for some allergies but for other things, like latex, the more you are exposed to them the more likely you are to develop an allergy?
It's not just the amount of exposure, it's the type. Skin exposure is generally sensitizing. Mouth exposure is generally desensitizing, as long as it is below the threshold that causes a severe reaction, and the exposure is more often than roughly twice weekly (the more often the better).
This may be a reason why babies stick everything in their mouths.
This is the basis of oral immunotherapy, and if you ate latex daily it could possibly desensitize you. However, the immune system is insanely complicated and not fully understood. There are a lot of gotchas here. It may actually be possible to desensitize with skin exposure with careful control of the dose, as there are some 'skin patch" treatments that work for some people although generally not nearly as well as the oral route. Not all allergies are the same, and may not be treatable by exposure in some people. The immunity obtained by immunotherapy may not be the same as natural immunity, it may disappear over time, and the treatment itself can have hard to detect but severe chronic side effects like eosinophilic esophagitis. So don't DIY!
Interestingly I have heard that mango skin contains the same irritant chemical as poison oak. I wonder if eating mango skin would help desensitize people to poison oak. I once ate a very small amount by accident and had a weird feeling in my throat and a bad taste in my mouth for ten minutes afterward, so it sounds pretty unpleasant to me.
My layman's understanding is that the key to desensitization is that it has to be below the level of a certain kind of reaction.
Allergies occur because the immune system incorrectly associates a substance with a bad reaction, and so attacks it as it would a pathogen. The problem is that the allergen isn't a pathogen, and so the immune system can't actually kill it.
There's a treatment for pet/pollen/etc. allergies that works by injecting a very small quantity of the allergenic substance every week, slowly building up tolerance. The body learns that the small dose didn't cause problems, and slowly gets accustomed to higher and higher doses. If the doctor sets the dosage too high, the body has an allergic reaction and then that allergic reaction reinforces the immune system's determination that the substance is dangerous. The treatment response to this is to drastically reduce the dosage and try again.
If the sibling comment's assertation that oral exposure was desensitizing was correct, that wouldn't explain why some people develop food allergies later in life. (As one anecdotal example, my Wilderness First Responder instructor was slowly getting more and more allergic to mangos.)
Several kids in our family's social group have successfully undergone desensitization therapy for severe nut allergies.
It was much more rigorous than the author's approach, with weekly doctor visits and taking increasingly large amounts of whatever they were allergic to (starting with micrograms of nut powder).
I think my niece had the best time as she eventually was advised to start eating daily measured amounts of nutella.
I mention this mostly because I do think the author was a bit cavalier in his approach (mostly because it's hard to accurately judge dosage from wild plants) but also to just spread the word that the allergy desensitization therapies are out there and quite effective and life changing.
I have direct experience with this and it is indeed a miracle. What's interesting is that the protocol largely emerged outside the regulatory channels, with a handful of doctors worldwide developing it once the science became clear that exposure could help and more and more offering it to patients every year. These allergists have carefully figured out regimens that work and it can take a year of daily dosing, with dose sizes increasing twice monthly, until one can safely eat, say, a handful of peanuts.
There's still today another camp: Many allergists still preach avoidance however and put fear into worried parents about the dangers of oral immunotherapy.
Because it can be hard to find an office that will run your immunotherapy program for you, or costly if you do, many parents are doing it on their own, following dosing protocols they find in Facebook groups or on YouTube. The ones I've seen have been supportive and helpful, not quackery.
Meanwhile the medical establishment is finding ways to monetize this immunotherapy by turning, for example, peanut doses into pharmaceuticals, e.g. Palforzia, which is a recently FDA approved "food allergy treatment" and is in fact simply peanut protein.
I got desensitization from ragweed prescribed by doctor (Ragwitek). But the allergy causes me permanently irritated throat. That was right before covid, then I got scared that it will make infection easier and gave up.
> I mention this mostly because I do think the author was a bit cavalier in his approach
The author may not have had access to a physician with experience in this.
I live in the part of the US where the only physician access is what can be afforded out of pocket (not much). Self initiated treatments are the order of the day.
A guy in my village, a few years before I was alive, was immune to poison oak (as am I; not sure how common it is) and he would show off by eating a bit of it. After several years of this parlor trick, he had a severe reaction one time and went to the hospital. Throat nearly swelled shut.
Makes you wonder what went differently that one time. Does the body say produce immune cells with some level of natural variation and that one time it happened to produce ones sensitive to the substance?
Some people just don’t react to it while others do.
I had hay fever as a kid which developed into asthma in my 30s, I had immune therapy from a specialist who gave me increasingly concentrated shots of allergens weekly for years. After a while my asthma went into remission and I quit taking medicine for it. I still have hay fever symptoms some times but they aren’t too bad and I rarely medicate for them because I get side effects even from some of the “non-drowsy” antihistamines.
Even though it is done under medical supervision, it is a controversial treatment. It’s banned in the U.K. They’d have me sit around the office for 30 minutes in case I had a bad reaction which they could usually treat with an injection of epinephrine but could be lethal if somebody was really unlucky.
Note there is at least one report of treatment of poison ivy sensitivity this way
The thing is I got a treatment from my doc which was somewhat evidence based, compare that to all the bizzaro ideas circulating such as Edgar Cayce’s idea that you could treat hay fever with an alcohol tincture of ragweed. (Got that from a herbalist once, it does seem harmless)
This sounds very much like something that someone might hear on Joe Rogan's podcast and think it's a good idea because someone who knows how to put two sentences together sounded like they knew what they were talking about.
You don't need to eat it. A well-known phenomenon in the US military is that some of the sites for Basic Training of new recruits have prodigious quantities of poison oak/ivy/sumac as the local flora. As consequence of the military training, you are rolling around in those plants daily. Initially, a large percentage of people have the usual reaction but it quickly disappears after a few weeks and it never happens again, providing apparent permanent immunity.
This is in contrast to the experience many kids have in the US of sporadic exposure and no immunity. Apparently intense sustained exposure is required.
That's the exact opposite to what happens with DCC in chemical labs. DCC reacts with amino groups in proteins, same as urushiol in poison {oak,ivy,sumac} and is a notorious sensitizer. It happens to some graduate students that they are unable to work in a lab any longer.
n=1 but I used to be immune to it, then one summer started landscaping, and probably weed whacked and pulled more of it than ever. Started with small hives, then small rashes. Then each successive exposure got worse and worse and I had to take a long course of steroids to stop a multi week outbreak. Still have scars 20 years later. For me, more exposure made it far worse.
About a half dozen times or more being exposed led to worse and worse reactions. It was awful.
I’ve also never heard from others that your body gets used to it. I’ve always heard it gets worse every time, which was my experience. Obviously anecdata.
My personal experience is quite the opposite. Repeated exposure to poison ivy resulted in worse symptoms each time, leading to a scar from one particular welt that lasted years.
Something similar happened to my father (we had moved to a new house that had a large patch that kept coming back) and the year before he finally managed to get rid of it, his reaction was so bad he actually couldn't eat cashews for a long time, since they can have traces of the urishol.
The component that causes the reaction is not the allergen. It's a chemical that reacts with multiple proteins in the body - it's a very reactive molecule and not at all selective.
So theoretically, subsequent exposures would create new antigens each time - molecules your immune system hasn't seen before.
Grandfather was in the military in WW2 and said he became immune to it around then. He used to pickup poison ivy and tell us "don't do this" while rubbing it all over his arm.
I'm not actually sure what the lesson he was trying to teach their was but in hindsight it's a cool flex lol
This is an interesting story. It definitely contradicts both current medical findings and anecdotal evidence that repeated exposures and repeated reactions generally worsen allergy to poison oak (and insect bites/stings, and other things). But there is a lot that is unknown about the immune system and it's not impossible that there could be other unknown factors that when combined with exposure could induce tolerance.
What does the military do for treatment of the rashes?
I grew up in the woods. I was a latchkey kid from age 5 so every afternoon I was in the woods with a dog, a horse, and a rifle. I would be covered in poison ivy each day and it never bothered me. Until I turned about 35 years old. Then I started to be affected by it every time I went out and did work on our land. Now I take precautions although I have eradicated most of the poison ivy on our lot.
My first introduction to urushiol was as a kid... there was a Japanese rhus tree [1] near my local bus stop and I happened to play with some of the seed pods while waiting for a bus one day. I ended up looking like the elephant man for a few days, and it took a bit of time to figure out what was going on.
It turns out that Urushiol shows up in some surprising places, including mango skin, which I discovered later in life after peeling a bunch of mangoes to make a mango salad. Apparently the husks of cashew nuts are notoriously bad for the workers who deal with them too (although the nuts themselves are perfectly safe)..
I don't think I'm likely to deliberately eat anything with urushiol in it, but I must admit, the idea of being able to train my immune system to deal with it is kind of appealing.
Question: I've worn leather gloves most of my adult life. Last year, after using a new pair, I developed a severe rash that spread beyond my hands. Having used gloves regularly for many years, I initially assumed it was a reaction to formaldehyde or whatever substance was used in manufacturing. But now, without exception, any time I wear leather anywhere with direct skin contact, I get a persistent rash.
Also, I have an extreme sensitivity to poison ivy and react to mango and peach leaves. Perhaps there's a clue here? Anyway, I'd be grateful to understand why I spontaneously developed an allergy to leather, which really hinders my work at times.
I've actually gotten more sensitive over time. I used to be practically immune to poison ivy. I've also become somewhat sensitive to low quality cashews (they can contain urushiol from the shells).
Just wash off the chemical soon as possible. It will turn red. And then it will go away. If it bubbles up, then wrap something around it to absorb the liquid that explodes from the rash.
This is a bit of an oversimplification. I am probably on the more sensitive end of the spectrum when it comes to poison ivy/oak but I have gotten rashes that are legitimately debilitating (i.e. typing was very painful). This was also after washing with dish soap post-exposure. I've since switched to Tecnu and it seems to work better but, unfortunately, is ridiculously expensive.
Do any plants with urishoil exist in Europe any where? Fairly confident they don't in the UK. The worst common plant we have that irritates skin is the stinging nettele.
> If you don't know why your body is fevering, don't lower the fever. If you don't know why your blood pressure is high, don't lower it.
And if you don't know why you have cancer, don't do anything about it?
Like, I get the point with fever (which is a known defense mechanism), but high blood pressure is a big problem in the long run and even if it's just a symptom, not doing anything about it is not likely to be the best move.
Fever happened and doctor thought it was virus. Fever hit 106. As I didnt take Tylenol. Fever turned out to be sepsis salmonella. Should have taken Tylenol.
Humans evolved to reproduce as a species successfully, not to ensure the optimum survival of an individual. Not everything your body does is in your best interests: something that tends to be the best solution for long-term survival for a group might be entirely wrong for your specific case.
If the human body was a codebase you'd be cursing the idiot who designed it. It's just good eonugh to get the job done (reproduction) before the wheels code off.
According to family lore, my grandmother’s rural northern-ca elementary school teacher had the class eat some poison oak. Despite living in prime poison oak territory and being a lifelong outdoors person, she never got it. I always assumed it was some wild folk medicine ritual, so it’s interesting to see that there might be some basis for it.
Metamizole is the only thing that works for me when I have fever. But it seems that I recently developped an allergy to it, which is a bummer. Every single damn time I take metamizole, I develop very itch rashes.
So by taking some substance it seem I became more sensitive to it's side effects, not less.
Those most at risk of developing anaphylaxis from bee stings are not those that get some as rarely as the typical population, or as often as experienced and busy beekeepers wearing mediocre protection, it was the hobbyists wearing complete protection that only got stung once or twice a year.
Made me start wearing a little less protection for fear of developing a stronger allergy.
The immune system is so complex. I have to wonder if allergies develop when something else is stressing the immune system and it misidentifies the culprit.
I just had a conversation today with someone who had a friend who ate poison oak for immunity. I brushed it off as bro science.
What a crazy coincidence.
Doctors are pretty much required to follow Establishment medicine. They're not going to tell you about folk remedies, because it could be malpractice for them.
By way of contrast, I've told my doctor about sinus rinsing, and she was not disapproving. But she said, "a lot of my patients do this and they seem to like it."
I think this is a better response than blanket disapproval. The corresponding response to urushiol desensitization would be "There's no guidance on this. Be very careful! Here are some risks." Which is the best you should expect from an establishment doctor.
A homeopathic doctor would tell you a lot of stuff that might or might not be accurate or safe.
> Doctors are pretty much required to follow Establishment medicine. They're not going to tell you about folk remedies, because it could be malpractice for them.
Not in the USA. In the USA doctors can absolutely recommend non-medical treatments like supplements and homeopathy and other crap. Each doctor has their own threshold of comfort in what they will and won't recommend. But as you yourself then followed up, your doctor said when you brought up nasal rinses, "a lot of my patients do this and they seem to like it." Other doctors will go so far as to suggest them, mine has, and he was right. My doctor (same doc for my wife) will bring up lots of things, and explains his position on them all clearly, even explaining risks and things. He even went so far one time as to suggest a Chinese medicine treatment for a rare disorder my wife has. He didn't say it would work, but said he's heard about it and it should be risk free if she wanted to try it.
Doctors are allowed to recommend lots of things, it's the presentation and outcome that define liability. If a Dr says "you should shove bees up your butt to cure this ear infection" then yeah, they're going to get in trouble. But it's a lot less black and white than you seem to feel.
Note: I've worked in real-medicine healthcare for 9 years now.
According to the article, urushiol extract is considered safe and effective by the US FDA and pills were available over the counter up until the 1970s. They disappeared from the market because of regulations regarding determining exact dosage needs and the ability to make pills containing that dosage. It is, apparently, a difficult problem. But a company claims to have solved the problem and will start doing trials shortly.
In other words, eating poison ivy absolutely will work. But nobody knows how much you should eat. And the leaves aren't fungible, so how can anyone tell you how many to eat even if they knew how much you should eat?
freefaler|1 year ago
talkingtab|1 year ago
I still got a "tingle" even when I did not get a rash.
The way to tolerate the adaptation is hot water - spray water as hot as you can stand (without damage) on the affected area and you will get substantial relief for about 12 hours. The relief of hot water on an affected area cannot be understated. A friend used the word "orgasmic" and it fits. I can almost imagine someone purposefully getting the rash just to take a shower.
Finally in this bizarre world of Urushi - when it is cured (warm & humid), NOT dried, the chemical properties change so the coating does not cause problems. If you see photos of Chinese or Japanese rice bows ls that are red or black they are probably wooden bowl coated with Urushi and cured. Urushi as used to make eating utensils.
There is more. There are an incredible number of decorative techniques. Supposedly each village had its own. One of the best is Rankaku. Tiny chips of quail egg shells are placed to form a pattern.
rallison|1 year ago
Yes. Similar to poison oak (in irritant effect), we've also got poodle-dog bush out in California. It thrives in post-fire environments, and isn't as well-known as poison oak. The reaction to it is often even worse than for poison oak. And so, before I was better versed in the "fun" plants of our local mountains, I had a run in with some poodle plants, and.. that was a rough few weeks.
I tried everything to make it more tolerable, and hot water was by far the best. The effect didn't last forever, but it was remarkable how it a) was actually pleasurable and b) muted the itchiness for a fairly significant amount of time (although still not as long as I would have liked..).
It's probably still best to avoid hot water until you've done a good job of getting the offending substance off (as best as possible). And near scalding water isn't otherwise great for the skin, so it's probably not something one should do all the time.
But wow, it was amazing for poodle-dog bush.
atombender|1 year ago
[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34781874/
shriphani|1 year ago
jelliclesfarm|1 year ago
I don’t know if those who consume a lot of mangoes or have grown up with mango trees around them are immune to poison oak’s urushiol(arguably much more concentrated) as its present in stems, saps, leaves, skin more than the flesh..but they likely have more tolerance.
Also..in India, we don’t burn mango leaves or branches as it increases respiratory risks..which ..now that I think about it..is likely due to the urushiol
throwaway2037|1 year ago
However, when picking mangoes, you need to be careful about the sap that comes from the broken stem. That will cause a rash, and also disfigure the fruit's skin (which hurts market value). You can Google about it.
lostfiddler|1 year ago
This thread made me realize I’m allergic to kiwi’s…
sethammons|1 year ago
adzm|1 year ago
yumraj|1 year ago
Am curious now if I’m brave enough to test poison oak immunity. Probably not..
nirse|1 year ago
selimthegrim|1 year ago
TexanFeller|1 year ago
m463|1 year ago
animal531|1 year ago
harimau777|1 year ago
modeless|1 year ago
This may be a reason why babies stick everything in their mouths.
This is the basis of oral immunotherapy, and if you ate latex daily it could possibly desensitize you. However, the immune system is insanely complicated and not fully understood. There are a lot of gotchas here. It may actually be possible to desensitize with skin exposure with careful control of the dose, as there are some 'skin patch" treatments that work for some people although generally not nearly as well as the oral route. Not all allergies are the same, and may not be treatable by exposure in some people. The immunity obtained by immunotherapy may not be the same as natural immunity, it may disappear over time, and the treatment itself can have hard to detect but severe chronic side effects like eosinophilic esophagitis. So don't DIY!
Interestingly I have heard that mango skin contains the same irritant chemical as poison oak. I wonder if eating mango skin would help desensitize people to poison oak. I once ate a very small amount by accident and had a weird feeling in my throat and a bad taste in my mouth for ten minutes afterward, so it sounds pretty unpleasant to me.
muffinman26|1 year ago
Allergies occur because the immune system incorrectly associates a substance with a bad reaction, and so attacks it as it would a pathogen. The problem is that the allergen isn't a pathogen, and so the immune system can't actually kill it.
There's a treatment for pet/pollen/etc. allergies that works by injecting a very small quantity of the allergenic substance every week, slowly building up tolerance. The body learns that the small dose didn't cause problems, and slowly gets accustomed to higher and higher doses. If the doctor sets the dosage too high, the body has an allergic reaction and then that allergic reaction reinforces the immune system's determination that the substance is dangerous. The treatment response to this is to drastically reduce the dosage and try again.
If the sibling comment's assertation that oral exposure was desensitizing was correct, that wouldn't explain why some people develop food allergies later in life. (As one anecdotal example, my Wilderness First Responder instructor was slowly getting more and more allergic to mangos.)
michaelbuckbee|1 year ago
It was much more rigorous than the author's approach, with weekly doctor visits and taking increasingly large amounts of whatever they were allergic to (starting with micrograms of nut powder).
I think my niece had the best time as she eventually was advised to start eating daily measured amounts of nutella.
I mention this mostly because I do think the author was a bit cavalier in his approach (mostly because it's hard to accurately judge dosage from wild plants) but also to just spread the word that the allergy desensitization therapies are out there and quite effective and life changing.
wawayanda|1 year ago
There's still today another camp: Many allergists still preach avoidance however and put fear into worried parents about the dangers of oral immunotherapy.
Because it can be hard to find an office that will run your immunotherapy program for you, or costly if you do, many parents are doing it on their own, following dosing protocols they find in Facebook groups or on YouTube. The ones I've seen have been supportive and helpful, not quackery.
Meanwhile the medical establishment is finding ways to monetize this immunotherapy by turning, for example, peanut doses into pharmaceuticals, e.g. Palforzia, which is a recently FDA approved "food allergy treatment" and is in fact simply peanut protein.
rini17|1 year ago
WarOnPrivacy|1 year ago
The author may not have had access to a physician with experience in this.
I live in the part of the US where the only physician access is what can be afforded out of pocket (not much). Self initiated treatments are the order of the day.
sethammons|1 year ago
This guy should be aware of said story.
im3w1l|1 year ago
corinroyal|1 year ago
x3n0ph3n3|1 year ago
It's not exactly a _toxin_, just sometimes trigger allergic reactions.
PaulHoule|1 year ago
I can’t condone it but I can’t rule out that some variant of this might work.
The reaction to urushiol is an allergic reaction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urushiol
and a vaccine is under development
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDC-APB
Some people just don’t react to it while others do.
I had hay fever as a kid which developed into asthma in my 30s, I had immune therapy from a specialist who gave me increasingly concentrated shots of allergens weekly for years. After a while my asthma went into remission and I quit taking medicine for it. I still have hay fever symptoms some times but they aren’t too bad and I rarely medicate for them because I get side effects even from some of the “non-drowsy” antihistamines.
Even though it is done under medical supervision, it is a controversial treatment. It’s banned in the U.K. They’d have me sit around the office for 30 minutes in case I had a bad reaction which they could usually treat with an injection of epinephrine but could be lethal if somebody was really unlucky.
Note there is at least one report of treatment of poison ivy sensitivity this way
https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(09)01972-1/ful...
The thing is I got a treatment from my doc which was somewhat evidence based, compare that to all the bizzaro ideas circulating such as Edgar Cayce’s idea that you could treat hay fever with an alcohol tincture of ragweed. (Got that from a herbalist once, it does seem harmless)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce
alecst|1 year ago
SOLAR_FIELDS|1 year ago
jandrewrogers|1 year ago
This is in contrast to the experience many kids have in the US of sporadic exposure and no immunity. Apparently intense sustained exposure is required.
taurusnoises|1 year ago
Anon4Now|1 year ago
HarryHirsch|1 year ago
vrc|1 year ago
iJohnDoe|1 year ago
I’ve also never heard from others that your body gets used to it. I’ve always heard it gets worse every time, which was my experience. Obviously anecdata.
zdragnar|1 year ago
Something similar happened to my father (we had moved to a new house that had a large patch that kept coming back) and the year before he finally managed to get rid of it, his reaction was so bad he actually couldn't eat cashews for a long time, since they can have traces of the urishol.
pengaru|1 year ago
His pickup bed was full of poison oak and landscaping tools, arms and hands filthy from the work.
He warned me not to touch anything and not shake his hand etc. saying he's covered in poison oak but immune from the frequent exposure.
It's everywhere around here and I react horribly to it, but this experience lends some credence to your claims...
refurb|1 year ago
The component that causes the reaction is not the allergen. It's a chemical that reacts with multiple proteins in the body - it's a very reactive molecule and not at all selective.
So theoretically, subsequent exposures would create new antigens each time - molecules your immune system hasn't seen before.
voidfunc|1 year ago
I'm not actually sure what the lesson he was trying to teach their was but in hindsight it's a cool flex lol
modeless|1 year ago
What does the military do for treatment of the rashes?
post_break|1 year ago
My wife is allergic to a plant we have in the garden, 5 years of rashes and it’s not getting better.
throwaway290232|1 year ago
[deleted]
hollywood_court|1 year ago
FLT8|1 year ago
It turns out that Urushiol shows up in some surprising places, including mango skin, which I discovered later in life after peeling a bunch of mangoes to make a mango salad. Apparently the husks of cashew nuts are notoriously bad for the workers who deal with them too (although the nuts themselves are perfectly safe)..
I don't think I'm likely to deliberately eat anything with urushiol in it, but I must admit, the idea of being able to train my immune system to deal with it is kind of appealing.
1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxicodendron_succedaneum
sdwr|1 year ago
eth0up|1 year ago
Also, I have an extreme sensitivity to poison ivy and react to mango and peach leaves. Perhaps there's a clue here? Anyway, I'd be grateful to understand why I spontaneously developed an allergy to leather, which really hinders my work at times.
giantg2|1 year ago
nashashmi|1 year ago
ethagnawl|1 year ago
gadders|1 year ago
skepticalmd|1 year ago
As always, Chesterton's Fence applies to medicine.
Be very wary of anything outside of healthy diet, sleep, exercise, and relationships.
If you don't know why your body is fevering, don't lower the fever. If you don't know why your blood pressure is high, don't lower it.
We in the medical field vastly overestimate our understanding of human physiology.
Sebb767|1 year ago
And if you don't know why you have cancer, don't do anything about it?
Like, I get the point with fever (which is a known defense mechanism), but high blood pressure is a big problem in the long run and even if it's just a symptom, not doing anything about it is not likely to be the best move.
nashashmi|1 year ago
mmastrac|1 year ago
Humans evolved to reproduce as a species successfully, not to ensure the optimum survival of an individual. Not everything your body does is in your best interests: something that tends to be the best solution for long-term survival for a group might be entirely wrong for your specific case.
hooverd|1 year ago
wetpaws|1 year ago
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el_benhameen|1 year ago
DeathArrow|1 year ago
So by taking some substance it seem I became more sensitive to it's side effects, not less.
aae42|1 year ago
https://hbrc.ca/bee-stings/
Those most at risk of developing anaphylaxis from bee stings are not those that get some as rarely as the typical population, or as often as experienced and busy beekeepers wearing mediocre protection, it was the hobbyists wearing complete protection that only got stung once or twice a year.
Made me start wearing a little less protection for fear of developing a stronger allergy.
goda90|1 year ago
rvba|1 year ago
milleramp|1 year ago
plasticchris|1 year ago
zikduruqe|1 year ago
There are two types of people; those that are allergic to poison ivy, and those that will become allergic eventually.
foobarian|1 year ago
spookybones|1 year ago
AlbertCory|1 year ago
By way of contrast, I've told my doctor about sinus rinsing, and she was not disapproving. But she said, "a lot of my patients do this and they seem to like it."
I think this is a better response than blanket disapproval. The corresponding response to urushiol desensitization would be "There's no guidance on this. Be very careful! Here are some risks." Which is the best you should expect from an establishment doctor.
A homeopathic doctor would tell you a lot of stuff that might or might not be accurate or safe.
burnte|1 year ago
Not in the USA. In the USA doctors can absolutely recommend non-medical treatments like supplements and homeopathy and other crap. Each doctor has their own threshold of comfort in what they will and won't recommend. But as you yourself then followed up, your doctor said when you brought up nasal rinses, "a lot of my patients do this and they seem to like it." Other doctors will go so far as to suggest them, mine has, and he was right. My doctor (same doc for my wife) will bring up lots of things, and explains his position on them all clearly, even explaining risks and things. He even went so far one time as to suggest a Chinese medicine treatment for a rare disorder my wife has. He didn't say it would work, but said he's heard about it and it should be risk free if she wanted to try it.
Doctors are allowed to recommend lots of things, it's the presentation and outcome that define liability. If a Dr says "you should shove bees up your butt to cure this ear infection" then yeah, they're going to get in trouble. But it's a lot less black and white than you seem to feel.
Note: I've worked in real-medicine healthcare for 9 years now.
georgeburdell|1 year ago
greenie_beans|1 year ago
Kon-Peki|1 year ago
In other words, eating poison ivy absolutely will work. But nobody knows how much you should eat. And the leaves aren't fungible, so how can anyone tell you how many to eat even if they knew how much you should eat?
forgotmypw17|1 year ago
the way i was taught to do it is to take just the tip of a leaf from a young plant and eat that, put it on my tongue and swallow it.
addingadimensio|1 year ago
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