As an Italian, if it manages to break into our market, it means that it's good stuff. Yes, we are still very strict to our food related traditions and coffee is definitely one of them
As a Swede, I've never been so deprived of good coffee as when I was in Italy. So heavily "roasted" (more like burnt or torched) that no taste except maybe tar or char is left. Served either in ant sized cups or with milk to mask the horrendous taste.
No, the Nordic way of light (or medium) roasted coffee prepared in a drip brewer is the only way.
If this breaks into Italy, I will make sure to stay away from it ;-).
As a Brit dating an Italian, I couldn't agree more. I like to enjoy my coffee, not just drink it for the effects. I will never understand the tiny intense espresso + double sugar combo as a way to finish every meal. I get palpatations just thinking about it.
That being said, I'm really enjoying weak watery coffee these days. Its sweeter, you taste the aroma more, and it's a nice slow high in the morning that teases you gently into a focused work mindset, instead of tense grinning-neurotic mess I used to be. Also, I can sleep better at night.
For me espresso is the best coffee. I didn't like coffee before I tasted espresso on my first trip to Italy 15 years ago.
Nowadays most of our offices in Poland have espresso machines, so I can taste it here also.
What is funny is that when I was in our main office in US, they didn't have espresso machine, just some strange "coffee machine" that poured some coffee-like liquid.
I also don't get the big buckets of coffee premade and poured to the mugs in some traditional American diners.
In Poland the traditional way to prepare coffee is called "turkish style" (po turecku) - you put one or two spoons of ground coffee in glass or mug and pour hot water over it. I don't like that too much, but it tastes better than the US made version of coffee.
The audacity! Sure you have nice trains and welfare system, but claiming superiority over Italian coffee culture? I would prefer an espresso made on an Italian gas station at 2AM to a fancy Swedish roastery any time.
Neither Swedish nor Italian, but I completely agree. It took me a long time to realise I don't actually like espresso. There is this perception that espresso is "better" than other coffee. I guess it's the shiny machines, the weird noises they make and the fact that most people can't make it at home. I always thought that home methods like cafetière, drip/filter etc. were like poor imitations of the real deal.
I've recently learnt that most Starbucks have filter coffee as an off-menu item. It's still Starbucks but it's so much better than their "Americano". Unfortunately many will refuse to make it for you (presumably because it's more effort).
It's not that espresso can't be good, but for most places this is the cheap, low effort, coffee-on-demand. And in most of southern Europe (Italy, France, Spain) the taste seems to be for burnt coffee that all tastes the same.
Also, it really annoys me that if you order two drinks (like a café con leche in Spain) they'll split a double shot into two cups with one getting clearly more coffee than the other. It's a 50% chance you're going to get the weak brown milk.
Let me guess: you’re from Stockholm? Because you’re certainly not from my end of Sweden; until I moved here I’ve never tasted such a heavily roasted coffee as skånerost.
I never appreciated coffee before I lived in Australia.
The consistently excellent quality of coffee one got from any local cafe in Melbourne and Sydney was by far the highest I've seen anywhere in the world. Including Italy.
The only Starbucks I ever saw there was at the cruise ship terminal in Sydney.
I then moved to London and it was a very sad affair with coffee, I missed a good cup so much. Tho over the years they got more and more cafes that cared and had actually comparable coffee.
Italians will say this, then put a moka pot on the stove for five minutes until it's boiled through, and serve you the blackest, most burnt tar imaginable - stuff that could qualify as road building material - and then turn around and insult American food tastes whilst they've skipped two meals in favor of cigarettes and the lowest quality wine. But that's okay, because they have some expensive olive oil in a ceramic bottle for the last two years.
And you can't even accuse them of not having travelled enough, because half their young people are working across Europe, so they would know that there is better food out there in other countries - but they're doing that wine and cigarette diet so they remain ignorant and arrogant. They - you - are as bad as French people, but the rest of the world haven't discovered it yet.
This is a bit over the top and stereotypes/over-generalises...
Italian food is genuinely good, but is now, in my opinion, also too beholden to traditions and tribalism (food must be prepared in this way and you are wrong otherwise), and I perceive a relative lack of openness to different cuisines compared to some other countries.
Italian coffee is built on dark roasts of non-specialty (and often even Robusta) beans, which works well with milk-based drinks like cappuccinos but can also work well for espresso and moka brews too. Despite having a preference for lighter roasts I still enjoyed the coffee on my trip to Rome last year, and actually I would easily choose it over the big brand chains like Starbucks.
What I find Italy is missing is the so-called 'third-wave', where light and medium roasts are preferred and higher quality (think specialty or single-origin, typically always Arabica) beans are typically used. I believe that this is partly due to the fact that espresso prices are regulated in many parts of Italy to be as low as €1-1.50 and so the business model just doesn't work unless the beans are cheap too.
I would prefer having a coffee and a cigarette for lunch basking under the sun in Italy over eating hot pockets in a cubicle because I need a car to drive 30 mins to the nearest plaza that vaguely resembles a living breathing human settlement
It's also one of the world's top per capita consumers (and producer) of olive oil, so the chance of any given meal having old rancid olive oil in them is probably lower, rancidity being a function of throughout.
> Yes, we are still very strict to our food related traditions
Italian here. To those replying, this is the key takeaway. I think the poster means it'll take something insanely good for us to consider upending tradition. Not because we have the gold standard, but because we are so unbelievably stubborn and pig-headed :)
I have to agree with other posters Italian coffee is not very good (probably second worst I've experienced in Europe), and since you didn't addopt all the good new coffee stuff from the last ~30 years, I don't understand why would you addopt this.
filleokus|1 year ago
No, the Nordic way of light (or medium) roasted coffee prepared in a drip brewer is the only way.
If this breaks into Italy, I will make sure to stay away from it ;-).
tetris11|1 year ago
That being said, I'm really enjoying weak watery coffee these days. Its sweeter, you taste the aroma more, and it's a nice slow high in the morning that teases you gently into a focused work mindset, instead of tense grinning-neurotic mess I used to be. Also, I can sleep better at night.
krzyk|1 year ago
Nowadays most of our offices in Poland have espresso machines, so I can taste it here also.
What is funny is that when I was in our main office in US, they didn't have espresso machine, just some strange "coffee machine" that poured some coffee-like liquid.
I also don't get the big buckets of coffee premade and poured to the mugs in some traditional American diners.
In Poland the traditional way to prepare coffee is called "turkish style" (po turecku) - you put one or two spoons of ground coffee in glass or mug and pour hot water over it. I don't like that too much, but it tastes better than the US made version of coffee.
oytis|1 year ago
globular-toast|1 year ago
I've recently learnt that most Starbucks have filter coffee as an off-menu item. It's still Starbucks but it's so much better than their "Americano". Unfortunately many will refuse to make it for you (presumably because it's more effort).
It's not that espresso can't be good, but for most places this is the cheap, low effort, coffee-on-demand. And in most of southern Europe (Italy, France, Spain) the taste seems to be for burnt coffee that all tastes the same.
Also, it really annoys me that if you order two drinks (like a café con leche in Spain) they'll split a double shot into two cups with one getting clearly more coffee than the other. It's a 50% chance you're going to get the weak brown milk.
robin_reala|1 year ago
abc123abc123|1 year ago
But the worst coffee, has to be the brown colored bland fluid called coffee in the US!
unknown|1 year ago
[deleted]
temptemptemp111|1 year ago
[deleted]
jnsaff2|1 year ago
The consistently excellent quality of coffee one got from any local cafe in Melbourne and Sydney was by far the highest I've seen anywhere in the world. Including Italy.
The only Starbucks I ever saw there was at the cruise ship terminal in Sydney.
I then moved to London and it was a very sad affair with coffee, I missed a good cup so much. Tho over the years they got more and more cafes that cared and had actually comparable coffee.
dano|1 year ago
sjm|1 year ago
automatic6131|1 year ago
Italians will say this, then put a moka pot on the stove for five minutes until it's boiled through, and serve you the blackest, most burnt tar imaginable - stuff that could qualify as road building material - and then turn around and insult American food tastes whilst they've skipped two meals in favor of cigarettes and the lowest quality wine. But that's okay, because they have some expensive olive oil in a ceramic bottle for the last two years.
And you can't even accuse them of not having travelled enough, because half their young people are working across Europe, so they would know that there is better food out there in other countries - but they're doing that wine and cigarette diet so they remain ignorant and arrogant. They - you - are as bad as French people, but the rest of the world haven't discovered it yet.
sjwod|1 year ago
Italian food is genuinely good, but is now, in my opinion, also too beholden to traditions and tribalism (food must be prepared in this way and you are wrong otherwise), and I perceive a relative lack of openness to different cuisines compared to some other countries.
Italian coffee is built on dark roasts of non-specialty (and often even Robusta) beans, which works well with milk-based drinks like cappuccinos but can also work well for espresso and moka brews too. Despite having a preference for lighter roasts I still enjoyed the coffee on my trip to Rome last year, and actually I would easily choose it over the big brand chains like Starbucks.
What I find Italy is missing is the so-called 'third-wave', where light and medium roasts are preferred and higher quality (think specialty or single-origin, typically always Arabica) beans are typically used. I believe that this is partly due to the fact that espresso prices are regulated in many parts of Italy to be as low as €1-1.50 and so the business model just doesn't work unless the beans are cheap too.
Tade0|1 year ago
quotz|1 year ago
morsch|1 year ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_tobacco_use
It's also one of the world's top per capita consumers (and producer) of olive oil, so the chance of any given meal having old rancid olive oil in them is probably lower, rancidity being a function of throughout.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil
Also, and I suppose that is subjective, Bialetti coffee can be delicious.
bigfudge|1 year ago
hresvelgr|1 year ago
Italian here. To those replying, this is the key takeaway. I think the poster means it'll take something insanely good for us to consider upending tradition. Not because we have the gold standard, but because we are so unbelievably stubborn and pig-headed :)
tpm|1 year ago