They aren't suddenly becoming affordable. They have been gradually becoming affordable over the last decade due to lower supply chain costs and higher demand.
I’m reading this more like “New York Times reporter discovers used electric vehicles exist, cost less than new ones.”
Used EVs have been affordable for years. In fact, cars like the Nissan Leaf have depreciated so quickly that they’re a downright bargain (as long as your use case lines up with the limited range).
You have to be careful with used Leaf's. The ones close to $10K usually need a new (unavailable) battery. Initially, they shipped them without charge / active battery temperature management, so the old ones ate batteries.
This isn't true of newer Leafs. You can easily find a decent used one closer to $20K.
They might be more affordable now but accessibility I think is still low because of charging infrastructure. I live around a bunch of apartment complexes, probably 1,200 units between 3-4 properties, and none of them have charges available. I always say the issue is not getting homeowners to adopt electric cars because they largely have garage spaces where they can install chargers, the issue will be getting adoption to folks living in apartments and other places where you cant just install a charger. How will those folks charge their cars?
I own an electric car and no home charger. I charge at work, mostly. It works well for me. The solution will involve a range of options for a range of circumstances- what I do wouldn’t work for everyone but that’s ok.
Charging at home is cheap and convenient, but entirely optional. We don't fill our gas tanks at home. For most people's usage, you can get by with visiting a charger once or twice a week.
The supercharger experience is actually quite pleasant, and I expect it'll get even better with time as businesses realize that having a constant stream of customers with 30m to kill is a lucrative market.
I live in an apartment and around many others, all of which have chargers. YMMV.
Also, the number of level 2 chargers is massive. Download PlugShare and look around. And Superchargers and Electrify America chargers are common. It's really not hard any more.
> $40K, "affordable," shows what a bubble NYTimes is living in.
Did we read the same article? NYTimes is claiming that "$20k" (or rather, $20k after up to $7500 in federal rebates) is affordable.
Which, it kind of is? That's a brand newfully electric for like $400/month.
And we're seeing it in the used market as well. (2019/2020 Chevy Bolts are now going for like $15k or ~$350/month which puts them well into affordability for people around a $40k/yr income.
And I have never paid more than $5k for a car personally, but the average new car in America is ~$47k so $40k is not actually out of alignment with what most people are buying.
You are correct that people shouldn't spend so much on new cars, but the status quo is that they are. Reporting on prices isn't a bubble as much as just a statement of what's going on.
> Recently, Mr. Lawrence said, customers have been snapping up used Teslas for a little over $20,000, after applying a $4,000 federal tax credit.
...
> Carmakers including Tesla, Ford, General Motors and Stellantis, the owner of Jeep, have announced plans for electric vehicles that would sell new for as little as $25,000.
Chinese EVs are dumping because China's economy is collapsing, forcing them to dump prices because there's not enough Chinese demand.
China is now exporting all of their excess inventory to Europe and beginning to make plans to export all this inventory to the USA. And USA is rejecting it.
China has overbuilt their EV market, and continues to over-invest and builld too many EVs. USA is already pissed off at this turn of events, and European politics are beginning to grow more protective as they are also seeing this ridiculous amount of inventories come over to their countries.
China bet too much on exports and has begun to piss off everyone else.
It depends on where you live. Where I live on the west coast, you can find lots of used Nissan Leafs on craigslist for less than 6-7k. That's actually affordable. And there are some for under 4k, junk car territory.
Granted, they're 10+ year old cars and can only go ~50 miles on a charge (originally 80 miles but the battery degrades). But if you want a cheap car and live in a city or a close suburb, especially if you can charge your car at work, it's a doable option. These fully electric cars require less maintenance so they actually are cheap to run.
I'm aware that car prices are falling across the board, but I see EVs being hit harder than ICEs. I've heard from some local dealerships I visited recently that new EVs are sitting on the lot for longer too.
My I-PACE cost me over $80k when it was a one-of-a-kind vehicle, an EV from a mature car manufacturer with a luxury interior, sporty performance, hatchback, AWD, and heat pump. It won the 2019 World Car of the Year award (https://www.worldcarawards.com/web/2019_results.asp). It can easily make it the 150 miles from Seattle to Yakima over the PNW Cascade mountain pass in driving snow without needing to stop to charge. It was a bit of a stretch for me to spend that much on a car, but to me it was -- and still is -- a great car.
It wasn't too long before some other EVs with similar characteristics entered the marketplace, and at lower prices. Probably the biggest differences include slightly more splashy range on the spec sheet, although I would argue Jaguar is being more conservative than they really need to be with their advertised specs, and a faster charge rate. In other words, the newer EVs can get from point A to point B with less time spent at the rapid chargers.
Therefore my I-PACE's auction value is almost down to $20k, in spite of being low mileage and in excellent condition. I still get as much range out of it as I did the day I bought it. There are a few reasons for the precipitous price drop, but I suspect the overriding one is that nobody wants an EV that charges at 80kW.
Personally I use my gas car when doing road trips that would otherwise require a rapid charging stop, and I exclusively charge the I-PACE overnight in my garage. So I guess it's still worth a heck of a lot more than $20k to me, which is why I don't think I'll part ways with it until something really expensive breaks on it.
Meanwhile those who have EVs that don't use Tesla's supercharger network are stuck with the likes of Electrify America when they're road tripping. In that case I'm not sure your overall experience is going to be all that better whether your car is capable of pulling 80kW or 150kW at 35% SoC. I imagine people in 6-figure Taycans capable of pulling 270kW sitting in the same line as the $15k used Bolts capable of pulling 50kW for one of only 2 functioning chargers at an Electrify America site in a rural Walmart parking lot to open up, and then the charger ends up only being able to put out 100kW if you're lucky. The charging capabilities of your EV don't mean much if you can't take advantage of them.
Maybe the "unwashed masses" are starting to hear about the horror show that non-Tesla charging networks are as non-enthusiasts are suckered into buying one off the lot without the dealership being completely forthright with them about the true state of things, and that's being reflected in the relative price of used EVs.
Same experience here in the UK. My 2016 Model S P90D that I’ve had since new is now valued at ~$30k. 12 months ago it was ~$55k. It has lifetime free supercharging, free premium LTE connectivity (maps, spotify etc) and £0 annual taxes (due to tax laws here, a newer equivalent EV would now be due ~$500 a year). It’s done 50k miles and charges at 130-150kW, range is 180/220 miles in winter/summer.
Whoever buys it when I sell it later this year will get an amazing car.
nehagup|1 year ago
gtmitchell|1 year ago
Used EVs have been affordable for years. In fact, cars like the Nissan Leaf have depreciated so quickly that they’re a downright bargain (as long as your use case lines up with the limited range).
hedora|1 year ago
This isn't true of newer Leafs. You can easily find a decent used one closer to $20K.
_fat_santa|1 year ago
tuna74|1 year ago
IneffablePigeon|1 year ago
itishappy|1 year ago
The supercharger experience is actually quite pleasant, and I expect it'll get even better with time as businesses realize that having a constant stream of customers with 30m to kill is a lucrative market.
Lisdexamfeta|1 year ago
Also, the number of level 2 chargers is massive. Download PlugShare and look around. And Superchargers and Electrify America chargers are common. It's really not hard any more.
gjsman-1000|1 year ago
Let's remember that the median income in the US is $37,585. Half of people make less. Don't spend more than you make in a year on a new vehicle.
maxsilver|1 year ago
Did we read the same article? NYTimes is claiming that "$20k" (or rather, $20k after up to $7500 in federal rebates) is affordable.
Which, it kind of is? That's a brand new fully electric for like $400/month.
And we're seeing it in the used market as well. (2019/2020 Chevy Bolts are now going for like $15k or ~$350/month which puts them well into affordability for people around a $40k/yr income.
legitster|1 year ago
The federal reserve's calculation of household income is probably more useful at $74k: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
And I have never paid more than $5k for a car personally, but the average new car in America is ~$47k so $40k is not actually out of alignment with what most people are buying.
bdcravens|1 year ago
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43611570/average-new-car-...
You are correct that people shouldn't spend so much on new cars, but the status quo is that they are. Reporting on prices isn't a bubble as much as just a statement of what's going on.
Arnt|1 year ago
zht|1 year ago
hedora|1 year ago
> Recently, Mr. Lawrence said, customers have been snapping up used Teslas for a little over $20,000, after applying a $4,000 federal tax credit.
...
> Carmakers including Tesla, Ford, General Motors and Stellantis, the owner of Jeep, have announced plans for electric vehicles that would sell new for as little as $25,000.
tomcar288|1 year ago
slayerjain|1 year ago
dragontamer|1 year ago
Chinese EVs are dumping because China's economy is collapsing, forcing them to dump prices because there's not enough Chinese demand.
China is now exporting all of their excess inventory to Europe and beginning to make plans to export all this inventory to the USA. And USA is rejecting it.
China has overbuilt their EV market, and continues to over-invest and builld too many EVs. USA is already pissed off at this turn of events, and European politics are beginning to grow more protective as they are also seeing this ridiculous amount of inventories come over to their countries.
China bet too much on exports and has begun to piss off everyone else.
keploy|1 year ago
panda888888|1 year ago
Granted, they're 10+ year old cars and can only go ~50 miles on a charge (originally 80 miles but the battery degrades). But if you want a cheap car and live in a city or a close suburb, especially if you can charge your car at work, it's a doable option. These fully electric cars require less maintenance so they actually are cheap to run.
bdcravens|1 year ago
Average new vehicle price is $48k, but that's of course skewed by very high priced vehicles like pickups.
slayerjain|1 year ago
nicodemus26|1 year ago
steelframe|1 year ago
My I-PACE cost me over $80k when it was a one-of-a-kind vehicle, an EV from a mature car manufacturer with a luxury interior, sporty performance, hatchback, AWD, and heat pump. It won the 2019 World Car of the Year award (https://www.worldcarawards.com/web/2019_results.asp). It can easily make it the 150 miles from Seattle to Yakima over the PNW Cascade mountain pass in driving snow without needing to stop to charge. It was a bit of a stretch for me to spend that much on a car, but to me it was -- and still is -- a great car.
It wasn't too long before some other EVs with similar characteristics entered the marketplace, and at lower prices. Probably the biggest differences include slightly more splashy range on the spec sheet, although I would argue Jaguar is being more conservative than they really need to be with their advertised specs, and a faster charge rate. In other words, the newer EVs can get from point A to point B with less time spent at the rapid chargers.
Therefore my I-PACE's auction value is almost down to $20k, in spite of being low mileage and in excellent condition. I still get as much range out of it as I did the day I bought it. There are a few reasons for the precipitous price drop, but I suspect the overriding one is that nobody wants an EV that charges at 80kW.
Personally I use my gas car when doing road trips that would otherwise require a rapid charging stop, and I exclusively charge the I-PACE overnight in my garage. So I guess it's still worth a heck of a lot more than $20k to me, which is why I don't think I'll part ways with it until something really expensive breaks on it.
Meanwhile those who have EVs that don't use Tesla's supercharger network are stuck with the likes of Electrify America when they're road tripping. In that case I'm not sure your overall experience is going to be all that better whether your car is capable of pulling 80kW or 150kW at 35% SoC. I imagine people in 6-figure Taycans capable of pulling 270kW sitting in the same line as the $15k used Bolts capable of pulling 50kW for one of only 2 functioning chargers at an Electrify America site in a rural Walmart parking lot to open up, and then the charger ends up only being able to put out 100kW if you're lucky. The charging capabilities of your EV don't mean much if you can't take advantage of them.
Maybe the "unwashed masses" are starting to hear about the horror show that non-Tesla charging networks are as non-enthusiasts are suckered into buying one off the lot without the dealership being completely forthright with them about the true state of things, and that's being reflected in the relative price of used EVs.
megak1d|1 year ago
Whoever buys it when I sell it later this year will get an amazing car.
black_13|1 year ago
[deleted]
slackfan|1 year ago
Reminder that your taxes pay for the subsidies that make the prices on EVs even anywhere near that "affordable" range.
a_c_s|1 year ago
bdcravens|1 year ago
unknown|1 year ago
[deleted]
rini17|1 year ago