[rorychatt]

> I believe the idea is that it makes it very explicit to track provenance of code between environments, eg merge staging->master is a branch merge operation.=

That isn't quite my understanding - but I am happy to be corrected.

There wouldn't be be a staging->main flow. Rather CI would be pushing main->dev|staging|prod, as disconnected branches.

My understanding of the problem being solved, is how to see what is actually changing when moving between module versions by explicitly outputting the dynamic manifest results. I.e. instead of the commmit diff showing 4.3 -> 5.0, it shows the actual Ingress / Service / etc being updated.

> With directories you need to resort to diffing to spot any changes between files in folders.

Couldn't you just review the Commit that instigated that change to that file? If the CI is authoring the change, the commit would still be atomic and contain all the other changes.

> but if you have a workflow where hot-fixes can get promoted from older versions

Yeah 100%.

In either case, I'm not saying it's wrong by any stretch.

It just feels 'weird' to use branches to represent codebases which will never interact or be merged into each other.

[alfons_foobar]

Glad I am not the only one feeling "weird" about the separate branches thing :D

Probably just a matter of taste, but I think having the files for different environments "side by side" makes it actually easier to compare them if needed, and you still have the full commit history for tracking changes to each environment.

[theptip]

Sorry, typo, you’re quite right, I meant to say staging->prod is a merge. So your promotion history (including theoretically which staging releases don’t get promoted) can be observed from the ‘git log’. (I don’t think you want to push main->prod directly, as then your workflow doesn’t guarantee that you ran staging tests.)

When I played with this we had auto-push to dev, then click-button to merge to staging, then trigger some soak tests and optionally promote to prod if it looks good. The dream is you can just click CI actions to promote (asserting tests passed).

> Couldn't you just review the Commit that instigated that change to that file?

In general though a release will have tens or hundreds of commits; you also want a way to say “show me all the commits included in this release” and “show me the full diff of all commits in this release for this file(s)”.

> In either case, I'm not saying it's wrong by any stretch.

Yeah, I like some conceptual aspects of this but ultimately couldn’t get the tooling and workflow to fit together when I last tried this (probably 5 years ago at this point to be fair).

[rorychatt]

> staging->prod is a merge

I might be misunderstanding what you mean by staging in this case. If so, my bad!

I don't think staging ever actually gets merged into prod via git history, but is rather maintained as separate commit trees.

The way that I visualised the steps in this flow was something like:

  - Developer Commits code to feature branch
  - Developer Opens PR to Main from feature branch: Ephemeral tests, linting, validation etc occurs
  - Dev Merges PR
  - CI checks out main, finds the helm charts that have changed, and runs the equivelant of `helm template mychart`, and caches the results
  - CI then checks out staging (which is an entirely different HEAD, and structure), finds the relevant folder where that chart will sit, wipes the contents, and checks in the new chart contents.
  - Argo watches branch, applies changes as they appear
  - CI waits for validation test process to occur
  - CI then checks out prod, and carries out the same process (i.e. no merge step from staging to production).

In that model, there isn't actually ever a merge conflict that can occur between staging and prod, because you're not dealing with merging at all.

The way you then deal with a delta (like ver 1.0.1 in your earlier example) is to create a PR directly against the Prod branch, and then next time you do a full release, it just carries out the usual process, 'ignoring' what was there previously.

It's basically re-invented the terraform delta flow, but instead of the changes being shown via Terraform by comparing state and template, it's comparing template and template in git.

> ultimately couldn’t get the tooling and workflow to fit together when I last tried this

I genuinely feel like this is the bane of most tooling in this space. Getting stuff from 'I can run this job execution on my desktop', to 'this process can scale across multiple teams, integrated across many toolchains and deployment environments, with sane default' still feels like a mess today.

edit: HN Formatting