The idea of tech as a tool of oppression is something that increasingly bothers me. I got into tech because I just liked building stuff with computers, and at the time I naively thought it seemed democratizing. Looking back I think this was largely because of the general public’s cluelessness about computers and the internet, so technically minded people with a little bit of access had a huge amount of power in shaping those early online spaces. I thought the future of tech would reflect the ideas of the builders, but I learned that’s not how it works. If something has potential as an instrument of power, that potential will be developed by those with power. Tech, especially the global internet has proven to have incredible scaling characteristics that can be harnessed for massive profit and control. AI is now promising a similar return in kind for whoever controls it. I’m not sure how to counterbalance this consolidation of power, but I do think it should be our major political project of the next 20 years or things are going to get ugly.
You should click through some of the links I've included, like https://dyingforaniphone.com/ and see how much money Apple pushes to hide how each of its innovations leads to corruption and straight-up sweat shop behavior (among other companies like Samsung, LG, Microsoft, HP and the like).
It's not even really about you or how you feel but what this industry is doing. And with the recent Supreme Court rulings, we're going to be lucky if we know if _more_ things go down.
>The industrial-technological system may survive or it may break down. If it survives, it MAY eventually achieve a low level of physical and psychological sutfering, but only after passing through a long and very painful period of adjustment and only at the cost of permanently reducing human beings and many other living organisms to engineered products and mere cogs in the social machine. Furthermore, if the system survives, the consequences will be inevitable: There is no way of reforming or modifying the system so as to prevent it from depriving people of dignity and autonomy.
Theodore Kaczynski, Industrial Society and Its Future
I'm convinced things are going to get very ugly over the next decade or two. It won't be until things get tremendously bad before the government actually does something and tries to turn it around.
Better stop moralizing capitalism. AI is simply another tool, and like all the tools that came before, its #1 purpose is to generate profits for the owners.
There's no counterbalance or consolidation of power that wouldn't go in accordance with the rules of a capitalist society, which necessarily includes the social class divide. Between those owning everything and those who sell their labor to survive.
Ugly or not, that is exactly what capitalism is supposed to be doing.
I think a big reason why a lot of people in tech feel like this is because tech has been reduced to getting a job and optimizing for total compensation.
If you look at employees at Google, you can see that they are there to coast. Intelligent, sharp folks, reduced to mere optimizing for compensation while tweaking an algorithm here and there.
Instead what devs need to do especially those who are new to the industry, is to think like hackers of yore. Have total disdain of big tech and organizations.
I remember early 2000s and if you asked anyone who was a good hacker if they want to join IBM they would laugh in your face.
That culture needs to return. Where is the Napster of this era? That would give people the fulfillment they want and make them feel useful. A simple way of doing this is to take any popular piece of software and think what the "out there" version will look like and start building it.
Maybe punk rock and the hacker culture both need to make a comeback into the mainstream, otherwise FAANG and Leetcode will eat the soul of tech.
> I remember early 2000s and if you asked anyone who was a good hacker if they want to join IBM they would laugh in your face. That culture needs to return. Where is the Napster of this era? That would give people the fulfillment they want and make them feel useful. A simple way of doing this is to take any popular piece of software and think what the "out there" version will look like and start building it. Maybe punk rock and the hacker culture both need to make a comeback into the mainstream, otherwise FAANG and Leetcode will eat the soul of tech.
I'm glad you mentioned this. I was reading https://diversionbooks.com/books/the-spotify-play/ and the way that hacker culture has become effectively commercial (from anarchist ideals in finance being perverted into cryptocurrency, file sharing into cloud hosting, etc), we have to keep fighting to make control of it hard _while also_ protecting people's safety (bad actors - government or people - will always exist).
Coasting is fine in a sane company. Coasting is a sign of competence IMO as long as your work is also getting done and things are fairly estimated. We should get to coast because we practiced enough to be good at our job.
There's way too many jobs where the only reward for finishing your work is more work.
However, I don't think hacker or punk rock culture can make a come back here because there's too large of a pool of people willing to work even for underpaid tech jobs (since it's often a relatively a lot of money for them)
Lots of respect to Jacky for writing this. The tech industry truly pays enough money that you can lose sight of solidarity with other workers. Even as shit gets worse and more human rights are privatized you can stay insulated. I once had a coworker brag about how he paid 10k a year for a special medical service to see the doctor faster. Public transit sucks? You just Uber from your condo everywhere. Housing crisis? Idk I got my fully renovated 3-bedroom house downtown.
If you're reading this, just on a tactical level for job hunting one thing I would say is to remove the (+/-) part of the resume. People can do the math on the duration if they care. Maybe even just put the years. I hope you're able to find something that isn't quite as dismal as 99% of tech jobs
Nixed that, thanks! I've been open to anything and the golden handcuffs have been released, so it's been fun. Right now, I'm focusing on helping other tech folks get organized (and folks outside of industry). I've spent not too much time helping folks with tech, but I'm eager to get "closer to the metal" of that process.
Tech is much like the fission bomb. Perhaps necessary, but the industry doesn't stop there. It must create bigger. Returns, investment, power, being a have and not a have not.
"Dr. Oppenheimer, when did your strong moral convictions develop with respect to the hydrogen bomb?"
"When it became clear to me that we would use whatever weapon we had."
Yeah. I only hesitate when we see people more eager to use things to exacerbate the harms of the world using technology. It sucks because we, as an industry, seem to only focus on the history of business gains and not on the sociological impact of said gains (the introduction of the smartphone and how that played into how people connect - or even what _was_ the first smartphone).
I realize it's kind of a game of musical chairs when companies work so hard to shut down various forms of {labor,equality,ethics} activism in tech, but I found myself wondering at the end of this whether there are groups that are active now, and how to find them. Organizing anything is a coordination problem, but organizing in a context where one is opposed by companies who have positioned themselves as bottlenecks to organization and communication for humans in general seems a uniquely difficult task with unique challenges, and while perhaps financial motivation is prevalent, I like to think many technologists can still be motivated by a challenge
> Much of the time, the entire economy operates in periods of substantial hashtag#unemployment or hashtag#underemployment, affecting workers generally: even if they have a job, the cost of job loss is so high they have to put up with nearly any abuse just to hang on to an income. Meanwhile, employers use their power to design workplaces to create a fine-grained division of labor in which workers are deskilled and thus easily replaceable.
I try not to lean on economic theory as a means of driving society (as much as capitalistic governance wants us to - we don't have to accept it). Both of the layoffs I experienced were examples of that perceived health (both at Glitch and Code for America). Coupling that with the need for us to feel "grateful" for something that can be effectively guaranteed to make us a bit messed up in the head when talking about this.
i think this is expecting to much from corporate america. i dont think these problems are unique to tech companies. maybe i missed the point, the post kind of went all over the place at times
Are we selling our selves and authenticity to companies? i guess in a way, but we try to get as much as we can out of companies too
As far as separating your self from tech and being technologist. I think its like music, the pop stuff sucks and is mass produced. tech that used to be cool is mass produced, im sure there is cool stuff out there if you put the work into finding it. like underground music. i think trying to label your self is a mistake in general.
> i think this is expecting to much from corporate america.
I'll push back on this by adding something from the book, Private Government by Elizabeth Anderson: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691176512/pr.... She makes the case, with evidence and history, how no one in America can get by without using corporations to survive. Until we have free housing and healthcare (instead of bombs falling on the rest of the world), we have no choice but to demand better from corporate America.
> As far as separating your self from tech and being technologist. I think its like music, the pop stuff sucks and is mass produced. tech that used to be cool is mass produced, im sure there is cool stuff out there if you put the work into finding it. like underground music. i think trying to label your self is a mistake in general.
I'll quote what I mentioned at the end: "And to play on an idea of separation of the "art from the artwork" while actively defending their organizations (failing that, their outputs and indirectly their contributions) works to be a free agent of marketing for them. It's similar to a private company opening up a non-profit to launder the notion of doing good to build a moat of social capital. How does one comfortably reconcile that?" In the case of Haiti, a musician decided to run for president. Similar to what happened in America when an actor did, both invoked violent wars on the citizens (one was selling blood and killing people, another dropped bombs around the world and blamed a set of people for a viral disease that they refused to do any research on).
It's nigh impossible to separate something that _can't_ exist without the other. We can try to believe that (hence the use of money to create a bubble).
It's funny you mention this. I did door-to-door sales for a bit and that's what provoked this post. I worked tech to get a check but the _mentality_ of folks outside of tech and in (which I imagine is the same gap that folks in finance, insurance, etc have) gave me a bit of pause when I was thinking about my tenure here.
> get a Dell PC, ones I've read online that were serviceable
When I "repaired" a Dell PC, I destroyed the machine.
Dell power-supplies looked like standard PC power supplies; they connected to the motherboard using the same Molex plug. But Dell's Molex connector wasn't wired the same as normal ones. Dell power supplies only worked with Dell motherboards, and vice-versa.
Things may have changed, but that experience blew away my illusions about Dells being repairable.
You never ever swap cables between PSUs. It's not a Dell thing - you must use the cables that ship with the PSU. Many people have fried their mainboard like you.
dasil003|1 year ago
jackyalcine|1 year ago
Or read more about how the necessary components for our devices like cobalt maintains the slave labor in Africa backed by Western hegemonic forces: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/23/books/review/cobalt-red-s... or the case of oil being pushed for more energy production and the lobbying against green solutions from companies like Exxon and Shell via https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/O/bo185167...
It's not even really about you or how you feel but what this industry is doing. And with the recent Supreme Court rulings, we're going to be lucky if we know if _more_ things go down.
andai|1 year ago
Theodore Kaczynski, Industrial Society and Its Future
https://besser.tsoa.nyu.edu/howard/Anarchism/Unabom/manifest...
I think Kaczynski's take is overly pessimistic, but it does get the broad strokes right.
8n4vidtmkvmk|1 year ago
kiviuq|1 year ago
There's no counterbalance or consolidation of power that wouldn't go in accordance with the rules of a capitalist society, which necessarily includes the social class divide. Between those owning everything and those who sell their labor to survive.
Ugly or not, that is exactly what capitalism is supposed to be doing.
ilrwbwrkhv|1 year ago
If you look at employees at Google, you can see that they are there to coast. Intelligent, sharp folks, reduced to mere optimizing for compensation while tweaking an algorithm here and there.
Instead what devs need to do especially those who are new to the industry, is to think like hackers of yore. Have total disdain of big tech and organizations.
I remember early 2000s and if you asked anyone who was a good hacker if they want to join IBM they would laugh in your face.
That culture needs to return. Where is the Napster of this era? That would give people the fulfillment they want and make them feel useful. A simple way of doing this is to take any popular piece of software and think what the "out there" version will look like and start building it.
Maybe punk rock and the hacker culture both need to make a comeback into the mainstream, otherwise FAANG and Leetcode will eat the soul of tech.
jackyalcine|1 year ago
I'm glad you mentioned this. I was reading https://diversionbooks.com/books/the-spotify-play/ and the way that hacker culture has become effectively commercial (from anarchist ideals in finance being perverted into cryptocurrency, file sharing into cloud hosting, etc), we have to keep fighting to make control of it hard _while also_ protecting people's safety (bad actors - government or people - will always exist).
hnthrow289570|1 year ago
There's way too many jobs where the only reward for finishing your work is more work.
However, I don't think hacker or punk rock culture can make a come back here because there's too large of a pool of people willing to work even for underpaid tech jobs (since it's often a relatively a lot of money for them)
VirusNewbie|1 year ago
Sounds like you’re extrapolating from internet anecdata rather than first hand experience.
dghlsakjg|1 year ago
To be fair, the most talented and ambitious still want nothing to do with big blue. Different reasons, but still.
burutthrow1234|1 year ago
If you're reading this, just on a tactical level for job hunting one thing I would say is to remove the (+/-) part of the resume. People can do the math on the duration if they care. Maybe even just put the years. I hope you're able to find something that isn't quite as dismal as 99% of tech jobs
jackyalcine|1 year ago
devwastaken|1 year ago
"Dr. Oppenheimer, when did your strong moral convictions develop with respect to the hydrogen bomb?"
"When it became clear to me that we would use whatever weapon we had."
jackyalcine|1 year ago
advael|1 year ago
drewcoo|1 year ago
https://www.eff.org
n_ary|1 year ago
Now economy is going through a downturn, things are expected to be bad.
Economy rebalances. Things will get better eventually. But the shockwave will leave some remnants behind. Just need to hold on for a bit.
jackyalcine|1 year ago
> Much of the time, the entire economy operates in periods of substantial hashtag#unemployment or hashtag#underemployment, affecting workers generally: even if they have a job, the cost of job loss is so high they have to put up with nearly any abuse just to hang on to an income. Meanwhile, employers use their power to design workplaces to create a fine-grained division of labor in which workers are deskilled and thus easily replaceable.
I try not to lean on economic theory as a means of driving society (as much as capitalistic governance wants us to - we don't have to accept it). Both of the layoffs I experienced were examples of that perceived health (both at Glitch and Code for America). Coupling that with the need for us to feel "grateful" for something that can be effectively guaranteed to make us a bit messed up in the head when talking about this.
xrd|1 year ago
jackyalcine|1 year ago
tayo42|1 year ago
Are we selling our selves and authenticity to companies? i guess in a way, but we try to get as much as we can out of companies too
As far as separating your self from tech and being technologist. I think its like music, the pop stuff sucks and is mass produced. tech that used to be cool is mass produced, im sure there is cool stuff out there if you put the work into finding it. like underground music. i think trying to label your self is a mistake in general.
jackyalcine|1 year ago
I'll push back on this by adding something from the book, Private Government by Elizabeth Anderson: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691176512/pr.... She makes the case, with evidence and history, how no one in America can get by without using corporations to survive. Until we have free housing and healthcare (instead of bombs falling on the rest of the world), we have no choice but to demand better from corporate America.
> As far as separating your self from tech and being technologist. I think its like music, the pop stuff sucks and is mass produced. tech that used to be cool is mass produced, im sure there is cool stuff out there if you put the work into finding it. like underground music. i think trying to label your self is a mistake in general.
I'll quote what I mentioned at the end: "And to play on an idea of separation of the "art from the artwork" while actively defending their organizations (failing that, their outputs and indirectly their contributions) works to be a free agent of marketing for them. It's similar to a private company opening up a non-profit to launder the notion of doing good to build a moat of social capital. How does one comfortably reconcile that?" In the case of Haiti, a musician decided to run for president. Similar to what happened in America when an actor did, both invoked violent wars on the citizens (one was selling blood and killing people, another dropped bombs around the world and blamed a set of people for a viral disease that they refused to do any research on).
It's nigh impossible to separate something that _can't_ exist without the other. We can try to believe that (hence the use of money to create a bubble).
unknown|1 year ago
[deleted]
unknown|1 year ago
[deleted]
JSDevOps|1 year ago
pavel_lishin|1 year ago
jackyalcine|1 year ago
OfficialTurkey|1 year ago
vundercind|1 year ago
Not necessarily exclusive from the other options in sibling posts.
riwsky|1 year ago
unknown|1 year ago
[deleted]
mmaniac|1 year ago
[deleted]
jackyalcine|1 year ago
unknown|1 year ago
[deleted]
lupire|1 year ago
Pairs well with
> I don't know how much longer I can comfortably call myself a "technologist"
luzojeda|1 year ago
i think it's pretty unfair to skip the rest of his sentence
denton-scratch|1 year ago
When I "repaired" a Dell PC, I destroyed the machine.
Dell power-supplies looked like standard PC power supplies; they connected to the motherboard using the same Molex plug. But Dell's Molex connector wasn't wired the same as normal ones. Dell power supplies only worked with Dell motherboards, and vice-versa.
Things may have changed, but that experience blew away my illusions about Dells being repairable.
sz4kerto|1 year ago