When I was in high school, I always had major anxiety issues. I realized later in life that it was my excessive amount of caffeine I was ingesting on a daily basis.
I mostly cut all forms of caffeine completely out of my diet since January. As as long as I get 6 hours of sleep or more, I find that I can focus better, I have energy throughout the whole day, and the sleep I do get feels like I'm more rested.
Even if I got the same hours of sleep every night, I had a hard time getting up in the morning with caffeine in my daily diet.
Get ready for some mood swings and anger issues, unless you still drink tea or other caffeine sources.
nobody cold quit caffeine after drinking if since highschool.
my first attempt lasted 3mo, the second one 6mo. every I've settled in coffee only in the early morning. ... worst part is the headaches when your addicted brain crave it.
It is a very compelling article and nice to read about the Liberian farmer entreprenuer, but the South also had tea, tobacco, and yaupon (black drink) which are all stimulants.
As the article states, it wasn't just stimulant qualities, it was also for morale. Imagine having no choice but to drink tea after decades of very rapid cultural absorption of coffee by every person.
But is the evidence sufficient to refute the null hypothesis, that coffee had no effect on the American civil war? Since the 19th century is behind us, randomized controlled trials is of course impossible, but there may be other evidence. Did Union regiments low on coffee supply fight worse than those with enough coffee?
Afaik, while coffee has been drunk for thousands of years, there is zero evidence of long-term cognitive benefits of coffee.
Idk about cognitive benefits (seems hard enough to measure that it doesn't even matter), but physiological benefits are well-documented.
I don't understand what this has to do with the topic at hand, though. Presumably coffee was used as a mild stimulant and a large morale booster, not some nootropic bullshit
Caffeine is a very interesting drug that makes capitalism and just daily work bearable. It's interesting that this went all the way to 1800s for the US.
After reading Your Mind on Plants [1], I decided to do an experiment, and stop any caffeine intake for ~3 months. After ~1 month, I felt "normal". Only when you cannot rely on a drug, a clutch, you realize how many pressures you face every day. One might have a deadline, something doesn't work, some part of work is boring... Maybe you just slept badly. Coffee fixes all of those.
Nothing is free though, and soon, you'll discover your sleep is not the best pretty much every day of the week. That, in turn, forces you to consume more caffeine, and thus the addiction cycle begins.
Interestingly, after being 3 months caffeine free, I succumbed to the pressure and started drinking some amount of caffeine again (work needs to be done, caffeine makes it easier to concentrate -> it's really difficult to say no).
I would encourage everyone to examine their relationship with this particular drug. It's insane to me that the population in 1800s was already so addicted to the drug that the lack "plugs" threaten to lose the civil war.
The thing is, it only does for a few days. At least for me. Then the coffee isn't helping at all -- it's just keeping you at the same baseline you previously were at with coffee.
I used to drink coffee all the time at just a constant level. Then I just got tired of feeling "dependent" on something and weaned off over a couple of weeks. Which was fine when you don't do it cold turkey -- just a little less energy each day but easily manageable.
Now I still drink coffee sometimes but I use it as a temporary performance tool. I'll "start up again" on any particular day where I have a ton of meetings, where I didn't get enough sleep, where I have to do a lot of physical stuff, etc. Often this might be several days in a row, where I increase my coffee each day a little more relative to the previous day for the same effect.
But then as soon as the demands stop, I immediately taper off to zero again, usually taking 2-5 days to do so. Not really because I "don't want to be dependent", but because I want to make sure I can get the full effect of coffee again the next time I need it, whether that's in a week or a month or three months.
It's kind of weird that I'm always fully aware of exactly how much I'm "dosing" myself with coffee. I'm almost always either "tapering up", "tapering down", or just off of it completely.
But it's very effective as a tool that way. Way more effective than when I just drank the same amount every day, which I discovered was no different from not drinking any at all (after tapering off).
I stopped caffeine. It sucked for a week, and I’d taken a week off because I knew it would be hell. And it was.
But after a week I felt free.
I barely consume caffeine anymore, like if I’m with friends at a cafe or something. Otherwise I don’t make tea or coffee at home unless I have guests who want some.
Some results I’ve noticed is that I literally don’t give a shit anymore about any pressures. I’ll just #dealwithit and it’s fine.
I also sleep way better and I am able to utilize the full waking day (I wake up at 6am and I sleep at 10pm).
One thing that’s strange is that it seems caffeine no longer has much effect like it used to in the rare occasion I’ll have a coffee. I’m able to sleep just fine and I feel no burst of energy or anything. Just a warm drink so maybe it warms me up a bit when it’s cool.
Idk. 10/10 would recommend quitting caffeine. My mind is way clearer (no brain fog from being groggy) and it runs like a diesel engine just pulls like a mfer all day.
For me it’s not that clear cut. Caffeine is a motivating booster each day but if I stick to my rhythm, one in the morning and one at lunch, then it doesn’t affect my sleep at all. It’s only when I’m pressured to go beyond that I suffer
Since it has now become fashionable to give up on coffee, it would be refreshing to hear anecdotes from "the other side" as well -- people who drink plenty of coffee, throughout the day, but do not suffer from significant negative side-effects (i.e., they continue to get good sleep, have low stress, etc.)
I went on a similar caffeine experimentation journey, and eventually settled on one (1) cup of coffee in the morning, followed by usually plain water for the rest of the day. I appreciate the boost to "get a task started" willpower that the caffeine provides, and by limiting my intake, it's mostly flushed out of my system by the time I'm ready to sleep. For my body, this balance seems to work well: I sleep deeply, dream vividly, and am occasionally woken by nightmares. (always wasps.) Usual stuff.
Ideally I'd avoid caffeine entirely, but when I tried to sustain this (for over a year) I felt lethargic and fatigued more often than not. From a willpower perspective, it was far too easy to go, "I'm too tired to start this task right now, I'll put it off." Some of that is mental, I realize, but the quick fix won. I have stuff to do and I don't want to spend months in misery trying to force a major lifestyle change when the coffee is right there.
What I *cannot* do anymore is drink caffeine (in any form) all day long, like I used to when I was younger. I have no idea how I slept at all. I'm partly convinced I mostly did not, and in hindsight it explains a lot of weird sleep consistency issues I was constantly struggling with.
I did the same back in December...while I was undergoing sleep compression during my CBT for insomnia treatment. Withdrawal on hard mode!
What motivated me to do so was trying a single origin decaf that my local roaster had available and realizing that, yes, decaf coffee can taste like regular coffee! I literally decided to stop drinking caffeinated coffee after that first cup.
Things were rough for about a month but all good after that.
The nice thing about drinking decaf every day is that caffeine _really_ works when I do choose to use it. Super helpful while driving long distances.
I think this is really understated. After developing a facial twitch and realizing I was consuming more than 1000 mg of caffeine a day, I switched to decaf once the particular project was over. No one told me it's physically addictive and has withdrawal symptoms! It's the only thing that would keep me functional and able to drive on with a project though.
The more I read anecdotes like this, the more im convinced there is not a homogenous response.
For me, too much caffeine can be a thing. But I can stop coffee fairly consequence free. I stick with it as I do like the taste, but the world moving heavily to arabica coffee may get me to stop. Not at all a fan of it.
To my point, I'm growing convinced we will someday find something like blood types for how it impacts you. Probably closer to the cilantro effect. But, same general ideas. Maybe even closer to catnip for cats?
I was 100% caffeine free for a year and a half while keeping a demanding full time job. That eventually ended when COVID lockdowns started (it's unclear even to me what the relationship between the two was; maybe my subconscious used it as an inspector excuse to go back)
Caffeine doesn't seem to affect my sleep until I get to absurd amounts like 10 cups in a day, which some times it does happen.
Currently I love the drug and intend to keep using it.
> Caffeine is a very interesting drug that makes capitalism and just daily work bearable. It's interesting that this went all the way to 1800s for the US.
Michael Pollan's thesis is absurdly exaggerated. I've been on and off coffee for the past few years and it's not necessary to "make daily work bearable". His link between caffeine and capitalism is just silly.
> Maybe you just slept badly. Coffee fixes all of those.
It doesn't fix sleeping badly for me anymore, at all. Perhaps it used to when I was younger, but after turning around 45, I increasingly found that the only fix for a poor night's sleep is a good night's sleep.
or perhaps poor nights of sleep just didn't affect me much back then.
A lot of people such as Mormons manage to bear capitalism just fine without caffeine. I like to have a little coffee most days but let's not exaggerate it's necessity.
Conversely wouldn’t the south have a near monopoly on nicotine (also a stimulant). I wonder what impact nicotine consumption - if any - had on the war.
Studying the civil war is really interesting and I wish schools did a better job of it. There is so much material from letters people wrote at the time that is just fascinating to read.
Still in use by the US Air Force. Although it's amphetamine / modafinil instead of meth. I'm always curious if they train while medicated, which seems kind of necessary considering how it modifies decision making behavior.
"Pervitin was one of the first commercially available formulations of methamphetamine hydrochloride (salts); it also contained large doses of caffeine. It was used by Nazi soldiers, sometimes along with cocaine, to help them remain alert on night patrols, long marches and also to help increase aggression and stamina during battle. Pervitin was heavily used by Stuka (a German fighter plane) pilots to help keep them alert on long patrol flights, hence the nickname "Stuka tablets". By 1940 the German Army had started greatly reducing the number of tablets each solider was allowed to have due to the severe side effects. While the drug was in their system, it had the benefit of causing decreased fear and increased strength, stamina, aggression and gave them a high resistance to pain. However, after the drug wore off, soldiers often took several days to recover. They suffered from a form of amphetamine "hangover" and were pretty much useless for the next few days because they acted more like zombies than soldiers; this was mainly because of the long duration of methamphetamine's effects which would cause soldiers to be awake for a few days straight, so it would take several days for the body to recover. Pervitin use also was responsible for Nazi soldiers becoming too aggressive and attacking fellow soldiers and superior officers. It also caused some to commit war crimes by killing civilians and raping women and young girls as amphetamines often greatly increase libido and decrease inhibitions."
One of the takeaways is that meth works ok during fast blitz campaigns like Poland or France where you want to get the whole thing over in a few weeks at most. But it works horribly in a long attritional fight like the eastern front where soldiers start suffering from the cognitive and physical consequences while still in the field fighting.
I went to a civil war reenactment as a kid where there were food samples from the era available to try. Who knows how accurate they were, but given how passionate folks can be about that history I imagine a lot of work went into the food. I remember eating hardtack and a couple other things that, at least to my young palette, tasted ok. Of course the hardtack I tried surely had fewer weevils and maggots than most did during the actual war.
Interesting article, but I wish they would give some numbers. I couldn't find good sources, but it sounds like the total volume of Liberian imports peaked at less than 0.1% of total coffee imports. So the Liberian coffee was an interesting footnote but not important for the actual supply of coffee.
They touch on the political affinities between the Union and Liberia but no so much the Confederacy and Brazil. I wonder if something similar was going on? Brazil still had slavery at that time. After the Confederates lost I recall learning that some slave-owning farmers moved down to Brazil to continue their slavery-driven farming practices. They only had 20 years though because slavery was banned in Brazil in the 1880s.
No doubt Brazil and the Confederacy would have liked to trade, as there was a strong tie between them as you guessed from the slavery issue. After the war, a number of Confederates (some illegally with their enslaved people) moved to Brazil, where their descendants are known as "Confederados" [1]. However, during the war the Union blockaded Southern ports and few trade items (including coffee) got through.
The traditional ratio is that one pound of coffee is 50 cups. So they drank about 5 cups per day. Though if the coffee came green, it might have been a little lower
There’s a short and fun book called Blitzed about “PED” use in WWII. Covering German pharmaceutical industry’s monopoly over certain stimulants, Hitler’s unlikely doctor who shot him up with everything under the sun, and the ultimate consequences for everyone involved (addiction, exhaustion, insanity).
Meth specifically is believed to be one of the contributing factor in the early success of the German army. Interestingly, I believe the same was used by the Japanese to encourage suicidal attacks, since, it turns out, it's easier to carry one when you're high as a kite.
The union didn't caffeinate their way to victory, the southern men went off to distant battlefields and the morally bankrupted northern generals like (((Sherman))) (who traded letters with his wife wherein they exchanged hopes of driving southerners right into the sea) he led armies to farms and towns populated only by the women and children left behind.
They fire-bombed entire cities "Stop there! Leave this building standing so they see a town once stood here." An actual quote.
This was a war meticulously overseen by Honest Abe himself. No wonder Hillary Clinton likened herself to him for being two-faced: One for public consumption, and one for Satan.
Do you see this tactic of deliberately targeting civilians, children, and infrastructure being employed anywhere else in the world right now?
[+] [-] billy99k|1 year ago|reply
I mostly cut all forms of caffeine completely out of my diet since January. As as long as I get 6 hours of sleep or more, I find that I can focus better, I have energy throughout the whole day, and the sleep I do get feels like I'm more rested.
Even if I got the same hours of sleep every night, I had a hard time getting up in the morning with caffeine in my daily diet.
[+] [-] euroderf|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] 1oooqooq|1 year ago|reply
nobody cold quit caffeine after drinking if since highschool.
my first attempt lasted 3mo, the second one 6mo. every I've settled in coffee only in the early morning. ... worst part is the headaches when your addicted brain crave it.
[+] [-] Xeyz0r|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] agtech_andy|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] jb1991|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] bjourne|1 year ago|reply
Afaik, while coffee has been drunk for thousands of years, there is zero evidence of long-term cognitive benefits of coffee.
[+] [-] darby_nine|1 year ago|reply
I don't understand what this has to do with the topic at hand, though. Presumably coffee was used as a mild stimulant and a large morale booster, not some nootropic bullshit
[+] [-] BossingAround|1 year ago|reply
After reading Your Mind on Plants [1], I decided to do an experiment, and stop any caffeine intake for ~3 months. After ~1 month, I felt "normal". Only when you cannot rely on a drug, a clutch, you realize how many pressures you face every day. One might have a deadline, something doesn't work, some part of work is boring... Maybe you just slept badly. Coffee fixes all of those.
Nothing is free though, and soon, you'll discover your sleep is not the best pretty much every day of the week. That, in turn, forces you to consume more caffeine, and thus the addiction cycle begins.
Interestingly, after being 3 months caffeine free, I succumbed to the pressure and started drinking some amount of caffeine again (work needs to be done, caffeine makes it easier to concentrate -> it's really difficult to say no).
I would encourage everyone to examine their relationship with this particular drug. It's insane to me that the population in 1800s was already so addicted to the drug that the lack "plugs" threaten to lose the civil war.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/This-Your-Plants-Michael-Pollan/dp/05...
[+] [-] crazygringo|1 year ago|reply
The thing is, it only does for a few days. At least for me. Then the coffee isn't helping at all -- it's just keeping you at the same baseline you previously were at with coffee.
I used to drink coffee all the time at just a constant level. Then I just got tired of feeling "dependent" on something and weaned off over a couple of weeks. Which was fine when you don't do it cold turkey -- just a little less energy each day but easily manageable.
Now I still drink coffee sometimes but I use it as a temporary performance tool. I'll "start up again" on any particular day where I have a ton of meetings, where I didn't get enough sleep, where I have to do a lot of physical stuff, etc. Often this might be several days in a row, where I increase my coffee each day a little more relative to the previous day for the same effect.
But then as soon as the demands stop, I immediately taper off to zero again, usually taking 2-5 days to do so. Not really because I "don't want to be dependent", but because I want to make sure I can get the full effect of coffee again the next time I need it, whether that's in a week or a month or three months.
It's kind of weird that I'm always fully aware of exactly how much I'm "dosing" myself with coffee. I'm almost always either "tapering up", "tapering down", or just off of it completely.
But it's very effective as a tool that way. Way more effective than when I just drank the same amount every day, which I discovered was no different from not drinking any at all (after tapering off).
[+] [-] moomoo11|1 year ago|reply
But after a week I felt free.
I barely consume caffeine anymore, like if I’m with friends at a cafe or something. Otherwise I don’t make tea or coffee at home unless I have guests who want some.
Some results I’ve noticed is that I literally don’t give a shit anymore about any pressures. I’ll just #dealwithit and it’s fine.
I also sleep way better and I am able to utilize the full waking day (I wake up at 6am and I sleep at 10pm).
One thing that’s strange is that it seems caffeine no longer has much effect like it used to in the rare occasion I’ll have a coffee. I’m able to sleep just fine and I feel no burst of energy or anything. Just a warm drink so maybe it warms me up a bit when it’s cool.
Idk. 10/10 would recommend quitting caffeine. My mind is way clearer (no brain fog from being groggy) and it runs like a diesel engine just pulls like a mfer all day.
[+] [-] Arn_Thor|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] srid|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] zeta0134|1 year ago|reply
Ideally I'd avoid caffeine entirely, but when I tried to sustain this (for over a year) I felt lethargic and fatigued more often than not. From a willpower perspective, it was far too easy to go, "I'm too tired to start this task right now, I'll put it off." Some of that is mental, I realize, but the quick fix won. I have stuff to do and I don't want to spend months in misery trying to force a major lifestyle change when the coffee is right there.
What I *cannot* do anymore is drink caffeine (in any form) all day long, like I used to when I was younger. I have no idea how I slept at all. I'm partly convinced I mostly did not, and in hindsight it explains a lot of weird sleep consistency issues I was constantly struggling with.
[+] [-] nunez|1 year ago|reply
What motivated me to do so was trying a single origin decaf that my local roaster had available and realizing that, yes, decaf coffee can taste like regular coffee! I literally decided to stop drinking caffeinated coffee after that first cup.
Things were rough for about a month but all good after that.
The nice thing about drinking decaf every day is that caffeine _really_ works when I do choose to use it. Super helpful while driving long distances.
[+] [-] systems_glitch|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] taeric|1 year ago|reply
For me, too much caffeine can be a thing. But I can stop coffee fairly consequence free. I stick with it as I do like the taste, but the world moving heavily to arabica coffee may get me to stop. Not at all a fan of it.
To my point, I'm growing convinced we will someday find something like blood types for how it impacts you. Probably closer to the cilantro effect. But, same general ideas. Maybe even closer to catnip for cats?
[+] [-] bdjsiqoocwk|1 year ago|reply
Caffeine doesn't seem to affect my sleep until I get to absurd amounts like 10 cups in a day, which some times it does happen.
Currently I love the drug and intend to keep using it.
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] slibhb|1 year ago|reply
Michael Pollan's thesis is absurdly exaggerated. I've been on and off coffee for the past few years and it's not necessary to "make daily work bearable". His link between caffeine and capitalism is just silly.
[+] [-] arbuge|1 year ago|reply
It doesn't fix sleeping badly for me anymore, at all. Perhaps it used to when I was younger, but after turning around 45, I increasingly found that the only fix for a poor night's sleep is a good night's sleep.
or perhaps poor nights of sleep just didn't affect me much back then.
[+] [-] nradov|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] ProjectArcturis|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] WalterBright|1 year ago|reply
What is it about socialist work that makes it bearable?
[+] [-] 2OEH8eoCRo0|1 year ago|reply
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/is-coffee...
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2023/02/coffee-ca...
[+] [-] softwaredoug|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] eggoa|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] mrblampo|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] brightball|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] kristianp|1 year ago|reply
"How Methamphetamine Became a Key Part of Nazi Military Strategy" https://time.com/5752114/nazi-military-drugs/
[+] [-] cj|1 year ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_and_no-go_pills
Edit: Actually looks like amphetamine isn’t approved anymore.
[+] [-] PopAlongKid|1 year ago|reply
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7576240/trivia/
"Pervitin was one of the first commercially available formulations of methamphetamine hydrochloride (salts); it also contained large doses of caffeine. It was used by Nazi soldiers, sometimes along with cocaine, to help them remain alert on night patrols, long marches and also to help increase aggression and stamina during battle. Pervitin was heavily used by Stuka (a German fighter plane) pilots to help keep them alert on long patrol flights, hence the nickname "Stuka tablets". By 1940 the German Army had started greatly reducing the number of tablets each solider was allowed to have due to the severe side effects. While the drug was in their system, it had the benefit of causing decreased fear and increased strength, stamina, aggression and gave them a high resistance to pain. However, after the drug wore off, soldiers often took several days to recover. They suffered from a form of amphetamine "hangover" and were pretty much useless for the next few days because they acted more like zombies than soldiers; this was mainly because of the long duration of methamphetamine's effects which would cause soldiers to be awake for a few days straight, so it would take several days for the body to recover. Pervitin use also was responsible for Nazi soldiers becoming too aggressive and attacking fellow soldiers and superior officers. It also caused some to commit war crimes by killing civilians and raping women and young girls as amphetamines often greatly increase libido and decrease inhibitions."
[+] [-] xhkkffbf|1 year ago|reply
A bit about it:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/books/high-on-hitler-and-...
[+] [-] jordanb|1 year ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3_3aUKfLoI
One of the takeaways is that meth works ok during fast blitz campaigns like Poland or France where you want to get the whole thing over in a few weeks at most. But it works horribly in a long attritional fight like the eastern front where soldiers start suffering from the cognitive and physical consequences while still in the field fighting.
[+] [-] gullywhumper|1 year ago|reply
https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/72532/pg72532-images.ht...
[+] [-] rurp|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] mgraczyk|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] kaycebasques|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] jhbadger|1 year ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederados
[+] [-] CraigRo|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] bevan|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] BossingAround|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] GastroLogic|1 year ago|reply
They fire-bombed entire cities "Stop there! Leave this building standing so they see a town once stood here." An actual quote.
This was a war meticulously overseen by Honest Abe himself. No wonder Hillary Clinton likened herself to him for being two-faced: One for public consumption, and one for Satan.
Do you see this tactic of deliberately targeting civilians, children, and infrastructure being employed anywhere else in the world right now?
[+] [-] vonnik|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] cafard|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] nunez|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] mikemitchelldev|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] morkalork|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|1 year ago|reply
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[+] [-] programmer3050|1 year ago|reply
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