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saucetenuto | 1 year ago

Guess again! Roberts explicitly calls out orders to the military as covered by absolute immunity. EDIT: and motive is explicitly barred from review too.

discuss

order

rpdillon|1 year ago

An important point here is that there are both legal and illegal orders. Military personnel are instructed obey every legal order, and disobey every illegal order (at least I was).

In the military, we have the UCMJ that allows us to prosecute those military personnel that issue illegal orders. The President is the Commander-in-Chief, but he is a civilian, so the UCMJ doesn't apply. I always thought he would be charged under criminal law in that case, but it seems that this ruling precludes that.

saucetenuto|1 year ago

This is true but I don't think it meaningfully checks the president, because the pardon power is also absolute and unreviewable, and does cover courts martial (as we saw in the Eddie Gallagher case). Military personnel are not required to follow illegal orders from the president, but if they do they won't face legal sanction.

fragmede|1 year ago

How does that interact with the Posse Comitatus Act?

thih9|1 year ago

Do you have a source? I didn’t find this in the article, could you add a quote - or link if it’s from elsewhere?

ceejayoz|1 year ago

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf

Page 14 notes that the President's official responsibilities "include, for instance, commanding the Armed Forces of the United States; granting reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States; and ap- pointing public ministers and consuls, the Justices of this Court, and Officers of the United States."

Page 17 states "We thus conclude that the President is absolutely immune from criminal prosecution for conduct within his exclusive sphere of constitutional authority."

Page 26 states "In dividing official from unofficial conduct, courts may not inquire into the President’s motives."

fallingknife|1 year ago

In the military chain of command an order is only an order when it is a lawful order. The president does not have any power to issue an unlawful order. That would be outside of his constitutional powers and not an official act.

shadowgovt|1 year ago

Who gets to decide the lawfulness of the order, and what physical power does the Executive have at his disposal to bring to bear to tip their judgment?

beaeglebeachedd|1 year ago

The military was happy to systematically seize guns from citizens in NOLA during Katrina. They will follow unlawful orders to keep their dental plans active.