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bradyriddle | 1 year ago

I remember Nvidia getting hacked pretty bad a few years ago. IIRC, the hackers threatened to release everything they had unless they open sourced their drivers. Maybe they got what they wanted.

[0] https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/nvidia-hackers-allegedly-...

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justinclift|1 year ago

For Nvidia, the most likely reason they've strongly avoided Open Sourcing their drivers isn't anything like that.

It's simply a function of their history. They used to have high priced professional level graphics cards ("Nvidia Quadro") using exactly the same chips as their consumer graphics cards.

The BIOS of the cards was different, enabling different features. So people wanting those features cheaply would buy the consumer graphics cards and flash the matching Quadro BIOS to them. Worked perfectly fine.

Nvidia naturally wasn't happy about those "lost sales", so began a game of whack-a-mole to stop BIOS flashing from working. They did stuff like adding resistors to the boards to tell the card whether it was a Geforce or Quadro card, and when that was promptly reverse engineered they started getting creative in other ways.

Meanwhile, they couldn't really Open Source their drivers because then people could see what the "Geforce vs Quadro" software checks were. That would open up software countermeasures being developed.

---

In the most recent few years the professional cards and gaming cards now use different chips. So the BIOS tricks are no longer relevant.

Which means Nvidia can "safely" Open Source their drivers now, and they've begun doing so.

--

Note that this is a copy of my comment from several months ago, as it's just as relevant now as it was then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38418278

SuperNinKenDo|1 year ago

Very interesting, thanks for the perspective. I suspect all the recent loss of face they experienced with the transition to Wayland happening around the time that this motivation evaporated also probably plays a part too though.

I swore off ever again buying Nvidia, or any laptops that come with Nvidia, after all this. Maybe in 10 years they'll have managed to right the brand perceptions of people like myself.

1oooqooq|1 year ago

interesting timing to recall that story. now the same trick is used for h100 vs whatever the throttled-for-embargo-wink-wink Chinese version is called.

but those companies are really adverse to open sourcing because they can't be sure they own all the code. it's decades of copy pasting reference implementations after all

CamperBob2|1 year ago

The explanation could also be as simple as fear of patent trolls.

dralley|1 year ago

I doubt it. It's probably a matter of constantly being prodded by their industry partners (i.e. Red Hat), constantly being shamed by the community, and reducing the amount of maintenance they need to do to keep their driver stack updated and working on new kernels.

The meat of the drivers is still proprietary, this just allows them to be loaded without a proprietary kernel module.

chillfox|1 year ago

Nvidia has historically given zero fucks about the opinions of their partners.

So my guess is it's to do with LLMs. They are all in on AI, and having more of their code be part of training sets could make tools like ChatGPT/Claude/Copilot better at generating code for Nvidia GPUs.

p_l|1 year ago

I suspect it's mainly the reduced maintenance and reduction of workload needed to support, especially with more platforms coming to be supported (not so long ago there was no ARM64 nvidia support, now they are shipping their own ARM64 servers!)

What really changed the situation is that Turing architecture GPUs bring new, more powerful management CPU, which has enough capacity to essentially run the OS-agnostic parts of driver that used to be provided as blob on linux.

kabes|1 year ago

It's hard to believe one of the highest valued companies in the world cares about being shamed for not having open source drivers.

nicce|1 year ago

Kernel modules are not user-space drivers which are still proprietary.

bradyriddle|1 year ago

Ooops. Missed that part.

Re-reading that story is kind of wild. I don't know how valuable what they allegedly got would be (silicon, graphics and chipset files) but the hackers accused Nvidia of 'hacking back' and encrypting their data.

Reminds me of a story I heard about Nvidia hiring a private military to guard their cards after entire shipments started getting 'lost' somewhere in asia.

porphyra|1 year ago

Much of the black magic has been moved from the drivers to the firmware anyway.

nicman23|1 year ago

they did release it. a magic drive i have seen, but totally do not own, has it