And another type. Canadians with TN-1 status (and Mexicans with TN-2) will typically switch to an H-1B in order to apply for a greencard. I worked in the US for about 8 years on TN-1 status, and then switched to an H-1B for the 6 months it took to go through the accelerated greencard process.
The xenophobia also seems a little over the top on this issue. With the rather broken American education system, is it so unbelievable to people that there may actually be quite a few non-Americans that are simply better qualified for these jobs?
> With the rather broken American education system
If the American education system is so broken, why do so many Canadians travel south to attend American colleges and universities? My wife certainly did, to get her law degree.
> is it so unbelievable to people that there may actually be quite a few non-Americans that are simply better qualified for these jobs?
That isn't unbelievable at all. However, our immigration system, as broken as it is, serves a different purpose. The H-1B visa is meant to fill jobs that cannot be filled with domestic talent. Not jobs that can be filled with superior talent. A fine difference, but still a difference.
Personally, I'm for eliminating all this visa nonsense and allowing anybody who wants to come here to do so. Then again, nobody asked me.
I'm not sure that it's so much "xenophobia" as the fact that companies are pretty well-known to be abusing the H1-B process right now to avoid hiring qualified Americans. The advantages for employers are quite strong, not least because H1-B holders have far less mobility and are essentially at the mercy of the employer.
With "accelerated greencard process" do you simply mean the greencard process as it exists for people that are already employed in the US as opposed to the slower / more uncertain process for people that, for example, use the Diversity Lottery or that are employer-sponsored but not already in the US?
Don't forget H-1B isn't the only VISA you can hire people under.
If you want to hire from Australia, there is a VISA that is roughly equivalent called the E-3. It has a cap of 10K, of which less than 3K are filled yearly. This is the VISA I have.
Not saying you will necessarily find the people you need down under (if you cannot find them in the US), but it is possible :)
I might be potentially getting this one soon too (fingers crossed). One thing though it's a non residency visa, as in you can never use it on the path to become a resident.
As a former H1B, I would like to point out that there are two types of H1B candidates: ones who got a degree here or are switching a job from an outsourcing company and seeking a American employer and the ones who are placed as a part of a larger team by an outsourcing company. The former are a part of a self-selected pool of risk takers. If you are a running a start-up, you are better off with the them as they have the mental toughness to withstand risk.
Bodyshoppers - Faux consulting companies that recruit H1B workers from overseas with promises of a life in the US and a Green Card and place the "consultants" at US corporations to fill developer positions. Usually while they are paid the "market" rate as per DOL guidelines the companies sometimes deduct "fees" from the salary for the first year or so giving the candidate not much to live on. The green card never materializes and the candidate is usually threatened with having to pay back all the fees if they leave. Some are really good candidates who come into the US this way and usually jump ship as soon as they can if they can find a US company to sponsor the H1B. There has been a crack down on this over the last several years so body shopping isn't as common as it used to be.
Outsourcers - Companies who specialize in transferring work development overseas. "Consultants" come to the US on a H1B for year or so to learn the process and systems then head back overseas to setup the development team offshore. Was very in vogue a few years ago but seems to have slowed down as more companies realized it doesn't work as well as advertised.
The third category is companies who genually are seeking the best candidate for the position and cannot find anybody locally. Really these companies should be sponsoring the candidate for a EB1, EB2, or EB3 green card however the process takes too much time (1-2 years+) and doesn't give the company as much leverage over the candidate as bringing them in on a H1B. If you are coming in on a H1B these are the companies you want to work for, but make sure you get any promises for Green Card sponsorship in writing otherwise it probably won't happen.
Err, and then there are the people from outside the US that have applied for a job with an American company in the usual manner, have been selected as the best candidate for the position, then need a way to legally relocate to the USA and do the job...
I hope Congress realizes that restricting the immigration of highly qualified tech workers has unintended consequences.
If I can't hire good programmers in America I'll be tempted to open an office in India. Once I open an office in India, I have even less of an incentive to hire people in America. With less employees in America, my company is spending less on services in America. My employees are buying less things. The people I didn't hire in America don't need houses in America. Real estate prices suffer.
Silicon Valley is an amazing place. Immigration restrictions are unnecessary friction. They are protectionism for college graduates who should be able to compete on their own (if they can't, wtf were they learning in college?). If you gunk up Silicon Valley you are basically priming the ground for the emergence of rivals. That seems unthinkable now, but only because we are all sitting in Silicon Valley and we aren't watching what is happening abroad.
Programmers can grow up anywhere. They can learn anywhere and with AWS, App Engine, etc. they can deploy their services cheaply from anywhere. Soon kids won't need VCs to launch companies. The proximity to Silicon Valley for funding's sake will be irrelevant. It'll be the tech community that will be the draw. If the best people aren't in Silicon Valley because immigration rules stopped them at the border, then there will be competing communities in other nations. Where living costs might be cheaper. Where the weather might be better. Where the abundance of beautiful women (and men) might be higher.
What happens to Silicon Valley real estate when tech work moves to other locales?
I've been thinking of moving to the Bay area for a while from the UK. Everyone I follow / engage with seems to be there so it seems like a good place to go.
One thing I'm hearing though is that companies are not that interested in hiring H1B candidates (at least for design) - I'm surprised that the increase in take-up is due to tech companies. Any Bay area companies able to comment on this?
I really did not feel that. I just graduated in the UK and will move to the Bay area in fall (when H1B starts). All the companies I talked to were totally ok with H1B.
As someone on H1B in Silicon Valley because of a rare, hard to find set of skills, I find it deeply insulting that every time this discussion comes up, it's always about money. But for people who just aren't sharp enoughs, I guess blaming something else than themselves is a convenient exit.
Stop complaining and sharpen up your skills folks, we're living in a global world with global competition on all levels. American companies can't afford to hire B talent just because they're "americans" (whatever that means, many americans I know are immigrants 1-4 generations back).
Meh. I have an H1B who makes about 25% more than the rest of his team in the same office because the prevailing wage is higher than my company's standard wage. It cuts both ways, depending where you are and what industry you're in.
Lots of People don't know that applying for H1B Visa is not getting the work permit/Visa to enter the country. Tech Companies like Microsoft file the Petitions even if they don't really utilize/invite people in the current year. This is just to keep a pool of extra workers on stand-by. Out of the 65k ,how many will get approved by the USCIS and how many really qualify in the Visa interview ?. How many enter the US in the current year? Remember your visa is valid for 6 years so they can utilize it in the future.
Slight correction -
The visa is not valid for 6 years. The H1B visa that is granted to you at a US consulate abroad is usually valid for up to three years. (sometimes two) i.e. you have till that expiry date to enter the US.
Once in the US, you can extend your H1B status for up to 6 years (and more if you have a pending 'green card' process)
In my team(at a company in SF bay area), We have tried to hire an entry level engineer and also a senior level engineer who can tackle software development. We've not been able to fill any position with qualified candidates.
Only reason is that the supply of jobs is abundant. Though there could be a huge number of american engineers, it simply doesn't match the demand at present. There is nothing terribly wrong in education system in the USA. The way you can solve this problem is by telling every freshman to major in Computer Science (However, many tech jobs don't require CS degree), which is not possible.
> " The way you can solve this problem is by telling every freshman to major in Computer Science"
I don't think that'd fix it - we're not really short on CS grads, we're short on CS grads that can write software. That's part of the xenophobia and hostility against H1B's - you have a lot of CS graduates who are just plain not very good programmers, who feel slighted that they're being passed over in favor of an international who's actually competent.
Would you be willing to post the salary you are offering, along with some information about what you consider to be a qualified candidate? Absolutely fine if you want to keep it general, I'm just curious about what people mean when they say they can't find a qualified candidate.
One big problem I have with the H1B visa is that it was created in response to an alleged "shortage". I'm very enthusiastic about creating a general skilled immigration under a points program (like Australia or Canada), but I'm far less enthusiastic about specific visa programs designed to remedy shortages in a particular and narrow segment of the economy. As you can probably tell, I'm one of those people who doesn't really believe that "shortages" of workers exist in a properly functioning market. I wouldn't rule it out completely, as we don't have a true free market and there are externalities to consider, but in general, I think most companies talking about shortages are really just having trouble hiring at the rate they want to pay.
Double or triple that salary, and you'll get your engineers. If that's too expensive, then maybe the talent you seek has just found higher value things to work on. One extremely regrettable aspect of the H1B is that it restricts mobility. Yes, changing jobs in related fields is possible and common, but an H1B holder can't stay on that visa to go to med or law school, start a new company, or respond rationally to all kinds of market signals they way free people in a free economy would be able to... and the ugly truth is that this is part of the appeal of this visa to some companies - a captive engineering workforce with all the market distortions that brings.
Good. H1Bs are abused by employers who refuse to pay the prevailing wage and lie to the government that they "can't find anyone at the prevailing wage."
The IEEE had it right when H1Bs were first expanded: don't give H1Bs at all. Instead, give greencards so that if the wages are below market the employee can immediately jump to a company paying the actual prevailing wage.
No, it doesn't; the cap applies only to new H-1Bs. You can extend your H-1B for one more term of 3 years. If you apply for a GC in those 3 years (if you haven't already) and reach a certain stage of the processing, you can get extensions past the 6 years. If you do not apply for a GC, you will have to leave the country after 6 years.
No. Once you have an H1B, you're good. You can extend it, and apply for a green card and have it be valid beyond six years while you wait for your response.
After your 6 years of H1B are over, and if you decide to leave the country for 1 year, and then reapply, then you will have to go through the quota again. Unless laws change by then, of course.
I have a roommate who just missed the deadline and is trying to figure out what her options are (background is in image processing/medical imaging)--she had an offer, but the process is rather long going from J-1 to H1...
So what if the supply is exhausted. It's a synthetic shortfall driven by a smoke and mirrors view presented by companies that don't want to pay decent wages.
There's no shortage of quality tech talent, never has been. Now go show me a quality company.
Luckily there's no unemployment problem in the U.S., because if there was, the H1B program would just be a way for companies to hire employees at well below market wages, further depressing the U.S. economy.
These aren't liberal arts majors here. The recession doubled unemployment among programmers and electrical engineers, but that means that they're up to 2.4% and 1.6% now. The US demand for STEM majors has been growing steadily, but the number of people graduating in STEM majors has been decreasing steadily over the last decade.
[+] [-] rll|13 years ago|reply
The xenophobia also seems a little over the top on this issue. With the rather broken American education system, is it so unbelievable to people that there may actually be quite a few non-Americans that are simply better qualified for these jobs?
[+] [-] maratd|13 years ago|reply
If the American education system is so broken, why do so many Canadians travel south to attend American colleges and universities? My wife certainly did, to get her law degree.
> is it so unbelievable to people that there may actually be quite a few non-Americans that are simply better qualified for these jobs?
That isn't unbelievable at all. However, our immigration system, as broken as it is, serves a different purpose. The H-1B visa is meant to fill jobs that cannot be filled with domestic talent. Not jobs that can be filled with superior talent. A fine difference, but still a difference.
Personally, I'm for eliminating all this visa nonsense and allowing anybody who wants to come here to do so. Then again, nobody asked me.
[+] [-] ubernostrum|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stdbrouw|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] itcmcgrath|13 years ago|reply
If you want to hire from Australia, there is a VISA that is roughly equivalent called the E-3. It has a cap of 10K, of which less than 3K are filled yearly. This is the VISA I have.
Not saying you will necessarily find the people you need down under (if you cannot find them in the US), but it is possible :)
[+] [-] astrec|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Aloisius|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rdl|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] millerfung|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dalore|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] manishsharan|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spiralpolitik|13 years ago|reply
Bodyshoppers - Faux consulting companies that recruit H1B workers from overseas with promises of a life in the US and a Green Card and place the "consultants" at US corporations to fill developer positions. Usually while they are paid the "market" rate as per DOL guidelines the companies sometimes deduct "fees" from the salary for the first year or so giving the candidate not much to live on. The green card never materializes and the candidate is usually threatened with having to pay back all the fees if they leave. Some are really good candidates who come into the US this way and usually jump ship as soon as they can if they can find a US company to sponsor the H1B. There has been a crack down on this over the last several years so body shopping isn't as common as it used to be.
Outsourcers - Companies who specialize in transferring work development overseas. "Consultants" come to the US on a H1B for year or so to learn the process and systems then head back overseas to setup the development team offshore. Was very in vogue a few years ago but seems to have slowed down as more companies realized it doesn't work as well as advertised.
The third category is companies who genually are seeking the best candidate for the position and cannot find anybody locally. Really these companies should be sponsoring the candidate for a EB1, EB2, or EB3 green card however the process takes too much time (1-2 years+) and doesn't give the company as much leverage over the candidate as bringing them in on a H1B. If you are coming in on a H1B these are the companies you want to work for, but make sure you get any promises for Green Card sponsorship in writing otherwise it probably won't happen.
[+] [-] jrmg|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eli_gottlieb|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TheMagicHorsey|13 years ago|reply
If I can't hire good programmers in America I'll be tempted to open an office in India. Once I open an office in India, I have even less of an incentive to hire people in America. With less employees in America, my company is spending less on services in America. My employees are buying less things. The people I didn't hire in America don't need houses in America. Real estate prices suffer.
Silicon Valley is an amazing place. Immigration restrictions are unnecessary friction. They are protectionism for college graduates who should be able to compete on their own (if they can't, wtf were they learning in college?). If you gunk up Silicon Valley you are basically priming the ground for the emergence of rivals. That seems unthinkable now, but only because we are all sitting in Silicon Valley and we aren't watching what is happening abroad.
Programmers can grow up anywhere. They can learn anywhere and with AWS, App Engine, etc. they can deploy their services cheaply from anywhere. Soon kids won't need VCs to launch companies. The proximity to Silicon Valley for funding's sake will be irrelevant. It'll be the tech community that will be the draw. If the best people aren't in Silicon Valley because immigration rules stopped them at the border, then there will be competing communities in other nations. Where living costs might be cheaper. Where the weather might be better. Where the abundance of beautiful women (and men) might be higher.
What happens to Silicon Valley real estate when tech work moves to other locales?
[+] [-] ed209|13 years ago|reply
One thing I'm hearing though is that companies are not that interested in hiring H1B candidates (at least for design) - I'm surprised that the increase in take-up is due to tech companies. Any Bay area companies able to comment on this?
[+] [-] ropiku|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] durandal1|13 years ago|reply
Stop complaining and sharpen up your skills folks, we're living in a global world with global competition on all levels. American companies can't afford to hire B talent just because they're "americans" (whatever that means, many americans I know are immigrants 1-4 generations back).
[+] [-] eitally|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rajdevar|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ark15|13 years ago|reply
Once in the US, you can extend your H1B status for up to 6 years (and more if you have a pending 'green card' process)
[+] [-] mycodebreaks|13 years ago|reply
Only reason is that the supply of jobs is abundant. Though there could be a huge number of american engineers, it simply doesn't match the demand at present. There is nothing terribly wrong in education system in the USA. The way you can solve this problem is by telling every freshman to major in Computer Science (However, many tech jobs don't require CS degree), which is not possible.
[+] [-] potatolicious|13 years ago|reply
I don't think that'd fix it - we're not really short on CS grads, we're short on CS grads that can write software. That's part of the xenophobia and hostility against H1B's - you have a lot of CS graduates who are just plain not very good programmers, who feel slighted that they're being passed over in favor of an international who's actually competent.
[+] [-] geebee|13 years ago|reply
One big problem I have with the H1B visa is that it was created in response to an alleged "shortage". I'm very enthusiastic about creating a general skilled immigration under a points program (like Australia or Canada), but I'm far less enthusiastic about specific visa programs designed to remedy shortages in a particular and narrow segment of the economy. As you can probably tell, I'm one of those people who doesn't really believe that "shortages" of workers exist in a properly functioning market. I wouldn't rule it out completely, as we don't have a true free market and there are externalities to consider, but in general, I think most companies talking about shortages are really just having trouble hiring at the rate they want to pay.
Double or triple that salary, and you'll get your engineers. If that's too expensive, then maybe the talent you seek has just found higher value things to work on. One extremely regrettable aspect of the H1B is that it restricts mobility. Yes, changing jobs in related fields is possible and common, but an H1B holder can't stay on that visa to go to med or law school, start a new company, or respond rationally to all kinds of market signals they way free people in a free economy would be able to... and the ugly truth is that this is part of the appeal of this visa to some companies - a captive engineering workforce with all the market distortions that brings.
[+] [-] cjensen|13 years ago|reply
The IEEE had it right when H1Bs were first expanded: don't give H1Bs at all. Instead, give greencards so that if the wages are below market the employee can immediately jump to a company paying the actual prevailing wage.
[+] [-] optymizer|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] refurb|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mavelikara|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] untog|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tsycho|13 years ago|reply
After your 6 years of H1B are over, and if you decide to leave the country for 1 year, and then reapply, then you will have to go through the quota again. Unless laws change by then, of course.
[+] [-] dimecyborg|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ylem|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ylem|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dsolomon|13 years ago|reply
There's no shortage of quality tech talent, never has been. Now go show me a quality company.
[+] [-] jellicle|13 years ago|reply
http://www.google.ca/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&#...
[+] [-] Symmetry|13 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wavephorm|13 years ago|reply
http://www.cis.org/PayScale-H1BWages