I guess I’m in the minority, but I can’t remember the last time I used Yelp to find restaurants. It’s been obvious for years (it feels like at least 10, maybe more) that they can’t be trusted.
I’m actually surprised they still get enough traffic to be sustainable.
Yelp is bad (really bad) but so is everyone else. I still use them on road trips alongside Google Maps and Apple Maps simply because none of them show all the restaurants in an area. It's kind of unbelievable how frustrating it is to try to get a complete look at all the restaurants nearby some location. Then again, it's a good trip if Google Maps doesn't ask me to turn left across three lanes onto a private alley and right through a brick wall (true story).
If I open Apple Maps and look for restaurants around me, tapping on one displays partial pics and reviews from Yelp. Tapping on those to read more will request I install the Yelp app. I would guess this integration is at least a contributing factor.
Yelp ratings are basically useless, except for egregious things like cockroaches found running around. The worst part about the site and Google is that they paginate restaurants in a local map view by rating. It would be better to see everything all at once for certain views.
But restaurants that delist themselves for whatever reason from the review sites, also delist themselves from me ever going to them.
I'm never going to choose a restaurant where I can't see pictures of the food and the menu before going ever again.
It doesn't have to be Yelp, but if I search and didn't see the restaurant, it doesn't exist and I will never go to it. If I pass by a place and it isn't brand new, yet they've scrubbed their web presence, I'm not going to go.
There's no reason to take a chance, and any place that is trying to hide from it, will just always be a place not worth bothering to find out why they are hiding.
I use Yelp and Google Reviews pretty regularly. If a restaurant has a bad score it might still be good. If it has a good score with lots of ratings then it's probably pretty decent.
somehow tabelog seems pretty legit compared to yelp. maybe there are issues in the japanese bubbles idk about and cant participate in. but on a trip to japan following that site led me to some amazing meals.
Some of these problems seems like the cause is because its hard to complain in person. I guess we all get labeled "karens" now for showing any kind of negative feedback in person, so we just suck it up and never go back and maybe leave a negative review.
i dont really rely on yelp, there's to many people with poor to average taste. google maps is ok, but same issue with taste. like the complaints people leave on some top tier restaurants are crazy.
eater has led me to some great restaurants locally and abroad. when traveling ill look at travel and food shows, or look and see whats busy, get local recommendations. one of my most memorable meals in bali was a rec from a kid working a cash register.
Japanese reviewers seem to understand that 3 is an average meal, and anything higher should be above average.
I wonder how tipping culture of the western world impacts star averages. Americans tip on just about everything. Do we inflate our star rating because it's in our mindset to 'be nice'?
Whereas Japanese are courteous on the outside, but uphold strict scrutiny on the inside. So when they rate something as 3 stars, it truly was a satisfactory meal, nothing more or less.
You're correct on this. Tabelog users center hard around 3 stars which is considered the real average. Users on sites like Yelp and Google Maps skew toward an average of 4.5 or 5 for what is considered a standard experience. This makes it extremely difficult to sort for places that are extraordinary because everyone keeps rating the max amount of stars by default. Same problem on Amazon. It doesn't really help to only filter for 1-3 star reviews for each place and read them all because my time is finite and I don't have all day.
>> I guess we all get labeled "karens" now for showing any kind of negative feedback in person
Being a Karen is more about "how" you complain rather than "what" you complain about.
(With exceptions, complaining about race etc makes you a Karen too.)
But in the context of a restaurant, well mannered complaints are often well received and encouraged. If the food arrives cold, let the server know. Politely. Calmly. The restaurant wants to know, they want to fix the problem.
Leaping to your feet, throwing the food on the floor, and making a scene out of proportion to the offense is what turns you into a Karen.
Tabelog has its share of crazies who dish out one-star ratings for the stupidest things ("the cashier's smile didn't seem sincere"), and the top listings are usually paid ads. But at least the ads are marked, and if there's enough reviews the outliers get averaged out.
> Some of these problems seems like the cause is because its hard to complain in person.
I was recently in an airport in Japan looking to use the meal voucher I'd been given due to a delayed flight.
What was available locally was a coffee shop with a very long line (well, not a long line, maybe ten feet, but keep reading), which operated like this:
- The person at the head of the line would advance and speak to the cashier, who would take their coffee order.
- The cashier would then leave the cash register and busy herself making the order.
- There were two other people on staff, who stayed away from the register. I'm not sure what they were supposed to be doing. They didn't take or prepare orders.
As you might imagine, this made for a very slow-moving line.
I wanted to use my voucher to buy some sodas from a refrigerated display in front of the counter. I had no trouble picking the sodas up myself and learning that the shop accepted meal vouchers. The voucher was exact change for the four sodas I was holding, so I hoped that that would be the end of things.
Instead, on learning that I wanted to use the voucher I was asking about, to pay for the sodas I was already holding, the cashier asked me to please line up with everybody else. Since that would have taken at least 40 minutes, I went to see whether a separate wing of the airport might have something.
That didn't work out, but I did run into my family (taking a separate flight), and after some socializing I went back to try and get sodas for everybody, since the competing store we'd found didn't take meal vouchers.
This time, after several minutes standing in line, I realized that there was no possibility of reaching the head of the line before I had to board my flight. So I hailed one of the idle behind-the-counter staff, specifically avoiding the cashier, and asked about my meal voucher. They were still happy to take it.
When I tried to make the purchase, the cashier butted in and asked me to please line up behind everybody else. And I shouted in frustration, "That takes so long!"
At which point, they took my voucher and let me walk off with the sodas. The voucher was still exact change.
I'm not sure what the solution was supposed to be. I find it hard to believe that you're supposed to handle deeply dysfunctional shop staff by yelling at them. But I have to note that this 'solution' saved me a huge chunk of time - and made it possible for me to make a purchase, and the shop to make a sale, that otherwise couldn't have happened at all - while not costing anyone else anything, except perhaps for wounding the cashier's heartfelt sense of propriety.
One lesson seems to be that in some cases, complying with the rules serves no purpose other than to enable actively harmful rules to remain in place.
The reviewer that removed star ratings in their reviews is onto something.
The most "real" reviews for restaurants right now is from city subreddits, of all places. Many of these suggestions are from people who live in the city instead of tourists who don't typically eat out (and have unrealistic expectations) or chronic reviewers who must be seen (I was one of them).
Adding stars or grades opens the door for gamification and petty tyrants who want to see businesses burn.
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jader201|1 year ago
I’m actually surprised they still get enough traffic to be sustainable.
aimor|1 year ago
mysterydip|1 year ago
viccis|1 year ago
malfist|1 year ago
acchow|1 year ago
Larrikin|1 year ago
But restaurants that delist themselves for whatever reason from the review sites, also delist themselves from me ever going to them.
I'm never going to choose a restaurant where I can't see pictures of the food and the menu before going ever again.
It doesn't have to be Yelp, but if I search and didn't see the restaurant, it doesn't exist and I will never go to it. If I pass by a place and it isn't brand new, yet they've scrubbed their web presence, I'm not going to go.
There's no reason to take a chance, and any place that is trying to hide from it, will just always be a place not worth bothering to find out why they are hiding.
JohnFen|1 year ago
forrestthewoods|1 year ago
gnopgnip|1 year ago
tayo42|1 year ago
Some of these problems seems like the cause is because its hard to complain in person. I guess we all get labeled "karens" now for showing any kind of negative feedback in person, so we just suck it up and never go back and maybe leave a negative review.
i dont really rely on yelp, there's to many people with poor to average taste. google maps is ok, but same issue with taste. like the complaints people leave on some top tier restaurants are crazy.
eater has led me to some great restaurants locally and abroad. when traveling ill look at travel and food shows, or look and see whats busy, get local recommendations. one of my most memorable meals in bali was a rec from a kid working a cash register.
buf|1 year ago
Japanese reviewers seem to understand that 3 is an average meal, and anything higher should be above average.
I wonder how tipping culture of the western world impacts star averages. Americans tip on just about everything. Do we inflate our star rating because it's in our mindset to 'be nice'?
Whereas Japanese are courteous on the outside, but uphold strict scrutiny on the inside. So when they rate something as 3 stars, it truly was a satisfactory meal, nothing more or less.
usui|1 year ago
bruce511|1 year ago
Being a Karen is more about "how" you complain rather than "what" you complain about.
(With exceptions, complaining about race etc makes you a Karen too.)
But in the context of a restaurant, well mannered complaints are often well received and encouraged. If the food arrives cold, let the server know. Politely. Calmly. The restaurant wants to know, they want to fix the problem.
Leaping to your feet, throwing the food on the floor, and making a scene out of proportion to the offense is what turns you into a Karen.
teractiveodular|1 year ago
thaumasiotes|1 year ago
I was recently in an airport in Japan looking to use the meal voucher I'd been given due to a delayed flight.
What was available locally was a coffee shop with a very long line (well, not a long line, maybe ten feet, but keep reading), which operated like this:
- The person at the head of the line would advance and speak to the cashier, who would take their coffee order.
- The cashier would then leave the cash register and busy herself making the order.
- There were two other people on staff, who stayed away from the register. I'm not sure what they were supposed to be doing. They didn't take or prepare orders.
As you might imagine, this made for a very slow-moving line.
I wanted to use my voucher to buy some sodas from a refrigerated display in front of the counter. I had no trouble picking the sodas up myself and learning that the shop accepted meal vouchers. The voucher was exact change for the four sodas I was holding, so I hoped that that would be the end of things.
Instead, on learning that I wanted to use the voucher I was asking about, to pay for the sodas I was already holding, the cashier asked me to please line up with everybody else. Since that would have taken at least 40 minutes, I went to see whether a separate wing of the airport might have something.
That didn't work out, but I did run into my family (taking a separate flight), and after some socializing I went back to try and get sodas for everybody, since the competing store we'd found didn't take meal vouchers.
This time, after several minutes standing in line, I realized that there was no possibility of reaching the head of the line before I had to board my flight. So I hailed one of the idle behind-the-counter staff, specifically avoiding the cashier, and asked about my meal voucher. They were still happy to take it.
When I tried to make the purchase, the cashier butted in and asked me to please line up behind everybody else. And I shouted in frustration, "That takes so long!"
At which point, they took my voucher and let me walk off with the sodas. The voucher was still exact change.
I'm not sure what the solution was supposed to be. I find it hard to believe that you're supposed to handle deeply dysfunctional shop staff by yelling at them. But I have to note that this 'solution' saved me a huge chunk of time - and made it possible for me to make a purchase, and the shop to make a sale, that otherwise couldn't have happened at all - while not costing anyone else anything, except perhaps for wounding the cashier's heartfelt sense of propriety.
One lesson seems to be that in some cases, complying with the rules serves no purpose other than to enable actively harmful rules to remain in place.
fire_lake|1 year ago
nunez|1 year ago
The most "real" reviews for restaurants right now is from city subreddits, of all places. Many of these suggestions are from people who live in the city instead of tourists who don't typically eat out (and have unrealistic expectations) or chronic reviewers who must be seen (I was one of them).
Adding stars or grades opens the door for gamification and petty tyrants who want to see businesses burn.
hoerman|1 year ago
inlined|1 year ago
defrost|1 year ago
crngefest|1 year ago
Must be an North American thing
cdrini|1 year ago
gamblor956|1 year ago
It's the same reason that Meta is still raking in billions a year despite nobody in the tech community using it.