I have a T2 Macbook, which I generally like (though the thermals on the i9 aren't great), but I'm a little annoyed how hard it is to get Linux on there because of all the changes that Apple made to the architecture.
I doubt I'll be getting updates of any kind on x86 Macbooks for much longer, so I wanted to install NixOS on here like I had on previous Macs, and I did manage to get it installed, but the support for the T2 hardware is, in my opinion, not usable for daily use. Very basic stuff like suspending doesn't work, the audio sounds like crap, sometimes booting simply doesn't work, and the discrete graphics card doesn't work.
I don't blame the community for this, obviously. These are hard problems, and Apple worked pretty hard to make it difficult to actually sideload other operating systems on here. It's annoying that in another year or so, this computer might become increasingly less secure, because updates will cease.
I should probably just buy a Framework at this point and sell this Mac while it still has some street value.
Anyone that wants Linux on a laptop should support Linux OEMs, instead of expecting other vendors to make life easy to Linux users, while increasing their sales for their own platforms.
I've gone back and forward on this. They obviously want to move on as quickly as possible (the local AI updates for example), but it's not clear how long T2 will get support - the last Intel Mac mini was still being sold new from Apple until 2023. Sure, they could still axe it, but hopefully they won't for another couple of versions (which would imply that other T2 Macs get some additional support).
Even then, you're getting Sequoia at least, a year of support for that, then another two (if memory serves) of patch(y) support.
When reading something like this I can’t help but wonder what the big PC makers do, but figuring that out seems like it would be pretty daunting given the large number of models even a single vendor makes.
Having so few models, plus firmware updates in the OS, probably made figuring this out so much easier than it would be in PC land.
Also: poor 2019 iMac. It’s a nice model but came out right before the Apple Silicon transition. It’s lifetime was never going to be what it could have been.
- Dell XPS 13 from 2014 was getting bios updates until 2019 when I sold it.
- Asus AM4 motherboard was getting updates for 4 years. Mainly for new CPU models.
- 1 year old AM5 motherboard from gigabyte has to be used with original firmware, newer is quite unstable.
- Minisforum miniPC gets about 1 year of updates. Firmware download is via Mediafire (file sharing service). There are no downloads for 3 years old device.
I do not thibg bios is too big issue, most things like CPU vulnerabilities are patched in linux.
>Also: poor 2019 iMac. It’s a nice model but came out right before the Apple Silicon transition.
There was nothing stopping Apple from supporting it far longer. It's not like they're a start-up short on cash with limited budgets. It's their own HW for Pete's sake, not someone else's like Microsoft or Linux has to.
Same with the 2019 16" MacBook Pro with Intel i9 processor. I switched to a M1 Max 16" MacBook in 2022 and use the Intel one with Windows 10 installed on Bootcamp.
>Also: poor 2019 iMac. It’s a nice model but came out right before the Apple Silicon transition. It’s lifetime was never going to be what it could have been.
I find it interesting that seemingly every other vendor does their best to maintain backwards compatability or at least some support.
Slightly related to this is a software called OpenCore Legacy Patcher [1]. It allows people to install newer macOS versions on older hardware. I don't know if the firmware updates are included though, maybe they aren't.
I recently installed High Sierra on a MacBook Pro from 2011, and it works flawlessly.
AFAIK, installing/updating unsupported OS versions via OCLP doesn't update firmware. It certainly hasn't on my MacPro6,1 running Sonoma (have 478, current is 481); the workaround is a PITA (Monterey only updates firmware if installed on the internal SSD, so I either need to buy a spare or backup / clean install / restore) and probably not worth the trouble.
Other than this, OCLP + Sonoma on the MacPro6,1 is fantastic.
One of my low-end test Macs is a 2012, 11-inch Air.
Still works great, but is capped at Catalina. I’ll have to check when it got its last update.
I use it as a Zoom machine, and it still runs the latest version of that app, just fine.
I have a first-gen iPhone Xs Max, that I’m using to test my software on iOS18. I test iOS16, on an iPhone 8 Plus. I also have an original SE, but it’s capped at iOS15, so I don’t test against it, anymore (except when I want to test really tight screen layouts). Apple kit does tend to last.
[+] [-] tombert|1 year ago|reply
I doubt I'll be getting updates of any kind on x86 Macbooks for much longer, so I wanted to install NixOS on here like I had on previous Macs, and I did manage to get it installed, but the support for the T2 hardware is, in my opinion, not usable for daily use. Very basic stuff like suspending doesn't work, the audio sounds like crap, sometimes booting simply doesn't work, and the discrete graphics card doesn't work.
I don't blame the community for this, obviously. These are hard problems, and Apple worked pretty hard to make it difficult to actually sideload other operating systems on here. It's annoying that in another year or so, this computer might become increasingly less secure, because updates will cease.
I should probably just buy a Framework at this point and sell this Mac while it still has some street value.
[+] [-] pjmlp|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] highwaylights|1 year ago|reply
Even then, you're getting Sequoia at least, a year of support for that, then another two (if memory serves) of patch(y) support.
[+] [-] Hamuko|1 year ago|reply
Getting my work laptop upgraded from a 16-inch i9 to a 16-inch M2 Max has been a godsend to my ears. The fan noise was constant with an i9.
[+] [-] justin66|1 year ago|reply
Your laptop isn’t the first to experience that stuff under Linux.
[+] [-] 127001brewer|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] 95014_refugee|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] MBCook|1 year ago|reply
When reading something like this I can’t help but wonder what the big PC makers do, but figuring that out seems like it would be pretty daunting given the large number of models even a single vendor makes.
Having so few models, plus firmware updates in the OS, probably made figuring this out so much easier than it would be in PC land.
Also: poor 2019 iMac. It’s a nice model but came out right before the Apple Silicon transition. It’s lifetime was never going to be what it could have been.
[+] [-] trte9343r4|1 year ago|reply
Just some anecdotal evidence:
- Dell XPS 13 from 2014 was getting bios updates until 2019 when I sold it.
- Asus AM4 motherboard was getting updates for 4 years. Mainly for new CPU models.
- 1 year old AM5 motherboard from gigabyte has to be used with original firmware, newer is quite unstable.
- Minisforum miniPC gets about 1 year of updates. Firmware download is via Mediafire (file sharing service). There are no downloads for 3 years old device.
I do not thibg bios is too big issue, most things like CPU vulnerabilities are patched in linux.
[+] [-] Rinzler89|1 year ago|reply
There was nothing stopping Apple from supporting it far longer. It's not like they're a start-up short on cash with limited budgets. It's their own HW for Pete's sake, not someone else's like Microsoft or Linux has to.
[+] [-] bunnyman|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] resource_waste|1 year ago|reply
I find it interesting that seemingly every other vendor does their best to maintain backwards compatability or at least some support.
Apple: Nope, go buy our new stuff $$$ :)
Apple fans: okay :)
[+] [-] Lukas_Skywalker|1 year ago|reply
[1] https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
[+] [-] jasomill|1 year ago|reply
Other than this, OCLP + Sonoma on the MacPro6,1 is fantastic.
[+] [-] raffraffraff|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] ChrisMarshallNY|1 year ago|reply
Still works great, but is capped at Catalina. I’ll have to check when it got its last update.
I use it as a Zoom machine, and it still runs the latest version of that app, just fine.
I have a first-gen iPhone Xs Max, that I’m using to test my software on iOS18. I test iOS16, on an iPhone 8 Plus. I also have an original SE, but it’s capped at iOS15, so I don’t test against it, anymore (except when I want to test really tight screen layouts). Apple kit does tend to last.
[+] [-] captn3m0|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] HashiramaInc|1 year ago|reply
8 years seems like long enough. Did you actually buy 40 macbooks from different eras?
[+] [-] pram|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] klausa|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] brcmthrowaway|1 year ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tedunangst|1 year ago|reply
[+] [-] timetopay|1 year ago|reply